Starving Honda

[laurie_randall]

Hi all!
My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed last Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump is unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
Thanx,Laurie

[Brad]

Be sure the fuel flow out of the gas tank is not a problem,that there is no stoppage in the tank, if that is good, it may be the pump,make sure no stoppage in the pump and you didn't mention the fuel filter. If it needs pump,any low pressure electric pump should work. I am not sure of which is the best pump to use. I am sure someone else knows a pump that is a good fit.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "laurie_randall@..." wrote:
> Hi all!
> My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed last Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump is unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> Thanx,Laurie

[Lyle]

Hi Laurie, any electric pump that is low pressure 2-4 PSI will work.
This would be a good choice:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... _5773407-p
Carter also makes one.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "laurie_randall@..." wrote:
> Hi all!
> My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed last Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump is unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> Thanx,Laurie

[zinc2u]

Hi Laurie,
     Below I have copied a msg which Bill C published on fuel pumps.  It kinda looks like the same pump which Lyle mentions in his msg.  Not sure if these will fit in the compartment on your coupe.
     For the coupe,   the fuel pump and fuel filter are in the same compartment under the rear seat (driver's side).
Have you looked at the fuel filter to see if it is looking like it contains particles.   If your new fuel pump does will not fit in the same compartment,  you can relocate it under the hood.  You would need to remove the existing pump and splice the two fuel lines together.  Home Depot sells barbed brass splice connectors and stainless steel clamps in the plumbing department which will work.
     For starters,  I would remove the rear seats and existing fuel pump.  I would then attach a new fuel pump (and if it doesn't fit into the compartment,  that is ok.  Let it lay on the bench where the seat is attahced).  You might need to buy some fuel hose, splices, and clamps to do this.  Then run the car and see if the problem is resolved.  If it is,  then you can figure out where to locate the fuel pump.
    Here is the msg from Bill;
Or you can go here and use an after market inline pump to push your fuel to the carb.
And for as little as $18.00. If your pump is not working you can leave it in place and run the fuel hose to the filter in the same place and hook up your new fuel pump in rear by the tank where all the new pumps are. And no one will know the difference.
http://www.discountfuelsystems.com/shop ... iversal:0)
&Ntt=fuel+pump
The big difference is that these are new pumps not something sitting on the shelf for the past 30 years.
Bill
Good luck,
Dale

> Hi Laurie, any electric pump that is low pressure 2-4 PSI will > work.
> This would be a good choice:
> http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... _5773407-p > Carter > also makes one.
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "laurie_randall@..." wrote:
> > Hi
> all!
> > My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed > last Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump > is unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get > it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting > etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop > sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling > started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did > nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a > Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> Thanx,Laurie

[Brad]

I would like to make a correction on the information on this last post where he said it is OK to mount fuel pump under the hood. It is NOT OK to mount an electric pump under the hood. It should be mounted where the original one is near the fuel tank or close to it, it must be mounted below the top level of the fuel tank. An electric pump has low suction capabilities so has a hard time sucking fuel a distance but has good pushing capability and can push the fuel a distance,it is known as a Pusher pump. Now a mechanical pump is the opposite, It has great suction capability and can suck fuel a distance as from the tank to the engine and is called a Suction Pump. Now an electric pump will work up front but can have problems loosing prim and other issues. I hope this sheds some light on fuel pump operation. Brad @ Classic Auto Service Dallas

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Laurie,
> Below I have copied a msg which Bill C published on fuel pumps. It
> kinda looks like the same pump which Lyle mentions in his msg. Not sure if
> these will fit in the compartment on your coupe.
> For the coupe, the fuel pump and fuel filter are in the same
> compartment under the rear seat (driver's side). Have you looked at the fuel
> filter to see if it is looking like it contains particles. If your new fuel
> pump does will not fit in the same compartment, you can relocate it under
> the hood. You would need to remove the existing pump and splice the two
> fuel lines together. Home Depot sells barbed brass splice connectors and
> stainless steel clamps in the plumbing department which will work.
> For starters, I would remove the rear seats and existing fuel pump.
> I would then attach a new fuel pump (and if it doesn't fit into the
> compartment, that is ok. Let it lay on the bench where the seat is attahced).
> You might need to buy some fuel hose, splices, and clamps to do this. Then
> run the car and see if the problem is resolved. If it is, then you can
> figure out where to locate the fuel pump.
> Here is the msg from Bill;
> Or you can go here and use an after market inline pump to push your fuel
> to the carb. And for as little as $18.00. If your pump is not working you
> can leave it in place and run the fuel hose to the filter in the same place
> and hook up your new fuel pump in rear by the tank where all the new pumps
> are. And no one will know the difference.
http://www.discountfuelsystems.com/shop ... XXX&PN=&Nr
> =AND(category:Fuel+Delivery,universal:0)
> &Ntt=fuel+pump
> The big difference is that these are new pumps not something sitting on
> the shelf for the past 30 years.
> Bill
> Good luck,
> Dale
> Hi Laurie, any electric pump that is low pressure 2-4 PSI will work.
> This would be a good choice:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... _electric-
> fuel-pump-airtex_5773407-p
> Carter also makes one.
> Lyle
> --- In
_anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
_
> (mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
) , "laurie_randall@" wrote:
> > Hi all!
> > My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed last
> Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump is
> unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get
> it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting
> etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop
> sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling
> started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did
> nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a
> Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> > Thanx,Laurie

[zinc2u]

Hey Brad,
   When I said to mount the fuel pump under the hood,  I did not mean to mount it on the hood.
   You can mount the electric fuel pump in the engine compartment.  Take a look at the n600 sedan.  It has the fuel pump mounted under the driver side headlight and it is drawing the fuel from the tank which is 6 feet away.
    While I can see the advantage of putting the fuel pump below the level of the fuel tank,  the Honda 600 pumps will pump fuel at a level above the fuel tank.  What do you think is happening when you are driving uphill .... the elevation of the pump is above the tank.
I've used the Honda 600 fuel pumps to pump gas from a 5 gallon fuel canister into the car and it has not had a problems developing a suction and delivering fuel to the car.
Dale

> I would like to make a correction on the information on this last > post where he said it is OK to mount fuel pump under the hood. It is NOT OK to > mount an electric pump under the hood. It should be mounted where the original > one is near the fuel tank or close to it, it must be mounted below the top > level of the fuel tank. An electric pump has low suction capabilities so has a > hard time sucking fuel a distance but has good pushing capability and can push > the fuel a distance,it is known as a Pusher pump. Now a mechanical pump is the > opposite, It has great suction capability and can suck fuel a distance as from > the tank to the engine and is called a Suction Pump. Now an electric pump will > work up front but can have problems loosing prim and other issues. I hope this > sheds some light on fuel pump operation. Brad @ Classic Auto Service > Dallas > --- In > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com > , > goinhm@... wrote:
> > Hi Laurie,
> > Below I have
> copied a msg which Bill C published on fuel pumps. It
> > kinda looks
> like the same pump which Lyle mentions in his msg. Not sure if > > these > will fit in the compartment on your coupe.
> > For the coupe, the
> fuel pump and fuel filter are in the same
> > compartment under the rear
> seat (driver's side). Have you looked at the fuel
> > filter to see if it
> is looking like it contains particles. If your new fuel
> > pump does
> will not fit in the same compartment, you can relocate it under > > the > hood. You would need to remove the existing pump and splice the two
> fuel lines together. Home Depot sells barbed brass splice connectors and
> > stainless steel clamps in the plumbing department which will > work.
> > For starters, I would remove the rear seats and
> existing fuel pump.
> > I would then attach a new fuel pump (and if it
> doesn't fit into the
> > compartment, that is ok. Let it lay on the bench
> where the seat is attahced).
> > You might need to buy some fuel hose,
> splices, and clamps to do this. Then
> > run the car and see if the
> problem is resolved. If it is, then you can
> > figure out where to
> locate the fuel pump.
> > Here is the msg from Bill;
> > Or you can go here and use an after market inline pump to > push your fuel > > to the carb. And for as little as $18.00. If your pump > is not working you > > can leave it in place and run the fuel hose to the > filter in the same place > > and hook up your new fuel pump in rear by > the tank where all the new pumps > > are. And no one will know the > difference.
> http://www.discountfuelsystems.com/shop ... XXX&PN=&Nr
> =AND(category:Fuel+Delivery,universal:0)
> > &Ntt=fuel+pump
> > The big difference is that these are new pumps not something > sitting on > > the shelf for the past 30 years.
> Bill
> > Good luck,
> > Dale
> > Hi Laurie, any electric pump that
> is low pressure 2-4 PSI will work.
> > This would be a good
> choice:
> http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... _electric-
> fuel-pump-airtex_5773407-p
> > Carter also makes one.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
> _anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> _
> > (mailto:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> )
> , "laurie_randall@" wrote:
> Hi all!
> > > My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a > flat bed last > > Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I > think the fuel pump is > > unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came > home not like we left.Did get > > it started again this past weekend > after checking fuel level,venting > > etc.turned on the car and pump made > it's normal click,click and floop,floop > > sounds. Started her up and > she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling > > started again and > engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did
> nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a
> > Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> Thanx,Laurie

[Chas]

I would strongly urge you to try to determine if the old pump is dirty, clogged or inoperable before replacing it. The original pump is preferable unless it does not work, and cannot be repaired or replaced with an original pump. Once you remove the seat, have someone listen and feel the pump when you turn the key on. If it is trying to pump or vibrating, your problem may be as simple as a clogged fuel line, filter or pump. If it does nothing, you may still be able to repair it.
Chas

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Laurie,
> Below I have copied a msg which Bill C published on fuel pumps. It
> kinda looks like the same pump which Lyle mentions in his msg. Not sure if
> these will fit in the compartment on your coupe.
> For the coupe, the fuel pump and fuel filter are in the same
> compartment under the rear seat (driver's side). Have you looked at the fuel
> filter to see if it is looking like it contains particles. If your new fuel
> pump does will not fit in the same compartment, you can relocate it under
> the hood. You would need to remove the existing pump and splice the two
> fuel lines together. Home Depot sells barbed brass splice connectors and
> stainless steel clamps in the plumbing department which will work.
> For starters, I would remove the rear seats and existing fuel pump.
> I would then attach a new fuel pump (and if it doesn't fit into the
> compartment, that is ok. Let it lay on the bench where the seat is attahced).
> You might need to buy some fuel hose, splices, and clamps to do this. Then
> run the car and see if the problem is resolved. If it is, then you can
> figure out where to locate the fuel pump.
> Here is the msg from Bill;
> Or you can go here and use an after market inline pump to push your fuel
> to the carb. And for as little as $18.00. If your pump is not working you
> can leave it in place and run the fuel hose to the filter in the same place
> and hook up your new fuel pump in rear by the tank where all the new pumps
> are. And no one will know the difference.
http://www.discountfuelsystems.com/shop ... XXX&PN=&Nr
> =AND(category:Fuel+Delivery,universal:0)
> &Ntt=fuel+pump
> The big difference is that these are new pumps not something sitting on
> the shelf for the past 30 years.
> Bill
> Good luck,
> Dale
> Hi Laurie, any electric pump that is low pressure 2-4 PSI will work.
> This would be a good choice:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... _electric-
> fuel-pump-airtex_5773407-p
> Carter also makes one.
> Lyle
> --- In
_anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
_
> (mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
) , "laurie_randall@" wrote:
> > Hi all!
> > My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed last
> Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump is
> unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get
> it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting
> etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop
> sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling
> started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did
> nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a
> Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> > Thanx,Laurie

[laurie_randall]

Hi Dale,
I love all of you in this Honda group.Helpful and supportive!I sent Lyle a post regarding a fuel pump put out by Auto Parts Warehouse.Advertised as an exact fit for a 72 Honda 600.Airtex E8016S.
Fuel pump-OE replacement.But,not sure if is for an N or Z come to think of it.Is there a difference in where they are? Wish me luck.
Thanx everyone,Laurie

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Hi Laurie,
> Below I have copied a msg which Bill C published on fuel pumps. It
> kinda looks like the same pump which Lyle mentions in his msg. Not sure if
> these will fit in the compartment on your coupe.
> For the coupe, the fuel pump and fuel filter are in the same
> compartment under the rear seat (driver's side). Have you looked at the fuel
> filter to see if it is looking like it contains particles. If your new fuel
> pump does will not fit in the same compartment, you can relocate it under
> the hood. You would need to remove the existing pump and splice the two
> fuel lines together. Home Depot sells barbed brass splice connectors and
> stainless steel clamps in the plumbing department which will work.
> For starters, I would remove the rear seats and existing fuel pump.
> I would then attach a new fuel pump (and if it doesn't fit into the
> compartment, that is ok. Let it lay on the bench where the seat is attahced).
> You might need to buy some fuel hose, splices, and clamps to do this. Then
> run the car and see if the problem is resolved. If it is, then you can
> figure out where to locate the fuel pump.
> Here is the msg from Bill;
> Or you can go here and use an after market inline pump to push your fuel
> to the carb. And for as little as $18.00. If your pump is not working you
> can leave it in place and run the fuel hose to the filter in the same place
> and hook up your new fuel pump in rear by the tank where all the new pumps
> are. And no one will know the difference.
http://www.discountfuelsystems.com/shop ... XXX&PN=&Nr
> =AND(category:Fuel+Delivery,universal:0)
> &Ntt=fuel+pump
> The big difference is that these are new pumps not something sitting on
> the shelf for the past 30 years.
> Bill
> Good luck,
> Dale
> Hi Laurie, any electric pump that is low pressure 2-4 PSI will work.
> This would be a good choice:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... _electric-
> fuel-pump-airtex_5773407-p
> Carter also makes one.
> Lyle
> --- In
_anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
_
> (mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
) , "laurie_randall@" wrote:
> > Hi all!
> > My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed last
> Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump is
> unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get
> it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting
> etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop
> sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling
> started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did
> nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a
> Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> > Thanx,Laurie

[laurie_randall]

Hi Lyle,
A co-worker found a pump through Auto Parts Warehouse.It is an Airtex E8016S Fuel pump-OE replacement. Says it is an exact fit for 1972 Honda 600. Also mention of "Fit note" Car 598cc.Which i know the 600 really is.I have no one,other than fellow owners in the 600 group to rely on.My Honda Shop Manual and parts list(which i know is of no use,but showed parts broken down into pieces),was "removed" from my car...Unfortunate.Let me know what u think of this pump.Please and thank-you.Laurie

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Lyle" wrote:
> Hi Laurie, any electric pump that is low pressure 2-4 PSI will work.
> This would be a good choice:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... _5773407-p
> Carter also makes one.
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "laurie_randall@" wrote:
> > Hi all!
> > My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed last Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump is unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> > Thanx,Laurie

[Lyle]

Hi Laurie, yep that will be perfect. I like to use original parts, but they are hard to find. The Airtex is used as a replacement pump on many cars. On the shelf at most auto parts stores, nice when your broke down far from home. Of course it's not like the original, so plastic tie wrap it in place, I also used foam in the fuel pump container so nothing will rattle around. Make sure the fuel lines are in good shape and don't kink. Good time to replace them and check electrical connections. Pull the fuel line at the carb and make sure you have good fuel flow. Check for leaks before you put the cover and rear seat back in.
Your Coupe will be hungry no more!
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "laurie_randall@..." wrote:
> Hi Lyle,
> A co-worker found a pump through Auto Parts Warehouse.It is an Airtex E8016S Fuel pump-OE replacement. Says it is an exact fit for 1972 Honda 600. Also mention of "Fit note" Car 598cc.Which i know the 600 really is.I have no one,other than fellow owners in the 600 group to rely on.My Honda Shop Manual and parts list(which i know is of no use,but showed parts broken down into pieces),was "removed" from my car...Unfortunate.Let me know what u think of this pump.Please and thank-you.Laurie
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Lyle" wrote:
> > Hi Laurie, any electric pump that is low pressure 2-4 PSI will work.
> > This would be a good choice:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... _5773407-p
> > Carter also makes one.
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "laurie_randall@" wrote:
> > > Hi all!
> > > My beautiful,restored '72 z600 baby car came home on a flat bed last Fri.Noticed a "howling" noise from behind me. Uh,oh.I think the fuel pump is unhappy. Tried to proceed.Didn't get far.Came home not like we left.Did get it started again this past weekend after checking fuel level,venting etc.turned on the car and pump made it's normal click,click and floop,floop sounds. Started her up and she ran for awhile (5 min or so) then the howling started again and engine slowly quit and died.Stepping on the accelerator did nothing.Soooo,i believe it is the pump.Does anyone know where i might find a Working fuel pump used,New,or alternative??
> > > Thanx,Laurie