Re: [2cylinderhondas] Motor synchro on non-synchro?

friend · Post by **friend** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:48 pm

Both of the engine numbers you gave below have constant or non-synchro transmissions.
the first two numbers of the engine number 10 mean that they are non-synchro. If the first two numbers were 15 or 25 then they would be full synchro transmissions.
Both of your engines are from Sedans built in July 1970 for 1026808, and April 1970 for 1019124.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > jpro8071 > Sent:
> Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:11
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Motor synchro on non-synchro?
> Is it possible to tell from the motor number if it is a synchro > or > non-synchro motor?
> I've got two
> -
> N600E-1026808
> N600E-1019124
> Both are probably from Sedans (no
> tach cable), and the second one has
> the Y head and a strange cover on the
> back of the fan. (I was told it
> came from Europe.)
> Can I tell from
> this, or do I need to pull them apart?

friend · Post by **friend** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:01 pm

As to the angle port head; angle port heads could be ordered from the parts catalog and were. But neither of your engines originally came with an angle port head. The last engine which had an angle port head is 1017730.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > jpro8071 > Sent:
> Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:11
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Motor synchro on non-synchro?
> Is it possible to tell from the motor number if it is a synchro > or > non-synchro motor?
> I've got two
> -
> N600E-1026808
> N600E-1019124
> Both are probably from Sedans (no
> tach cable), and the second one has
> the Y head and a strange cover on the
> back of the fan. (I was told it
> came from Europe.)
> Can I tell from
> this, or do I need to pull them apart?

blake neilson · Post by **blake neilson** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:05 am

I have two sedans, both with synchro transmissions. I
also have motorcycles and if I understand correctly,
the older non synchro transmissions used a system very
similar to a motorcycle. Still constant mesh but dogs
instead of syncros. Is that correct?
If I drove one of the earlier cars what would I
notice? Did they start using syncromesh since car
drivers don't tend to make their shifts as
deliberately as one does with a motorcycle?
Thanks
GNB
--- billmyong@... wrote:

> Both of the engine numbers you gave below have
> constant or non-synchro
> transmissions.
> the first two numbers of the engine number 10 mean
> that they are
> non-synchro. If the first two numbers were 15 or 25
> then they would be full
> synchro transmissions.
> Both of your engines are from Sedans built in July
> 1970 for 1026808, and
> April 1970 for 1019124.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]On Behalf Of
> jpro8071
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:11 PM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Motor synchro on
> non-synchro?
> Is it possible to tell from the motor number if it
> is a synchro or
> non-synchro motor?
> I've got two -
> N600E-1026808
> N600E-1019124
> Both are probably from Sedans (no tach cable), and
> the second one has
> the Y head and a strange cover on the back of the
> fan. (I was told it
> came from Europe.)
> Can I tell from this, or do I need to pull them
> apart?

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zinc2u · Post by **zinc2u** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:50 am

Yes, it was constant mesh with dogs. Shifting to a higher gear was not a problem but shifting to a lower gear would cause a loud clunk noise or you would not be able to engage the gears. And you are correct, the car drivers were being too casual in the shifting.
My first Honda 600 had the non-synchro style tranny and a friend suggested I double-clutch when I downshift. Once he explained double-clutching to me, I tried it and never had another problem or weird clunk noise when downshifting. But anytime I loaned the car to my friends, the clunk noise scared them and they thought something was wrong with my transmission. I ended up swapping out for a synchromesh transmission and have never put another non-synchro tranny in any of my 600s.
From a car collector point of view, it is probably best to have the correct parts in the car for its specific vintage. What do the members of this group think? If you were buying a 1970 Honda 600 sedan, would you want it to have the non-synchro transmission or the 1971 synchromesh transmission?
Dale

> Still
> constant mesh but dogs
> instead of syncros. Is that correct?
> If I
> drove one of the earlier cars what would I
> notice? Did they start using
> syncromesh since car
> drivers don't tend to make their shifts
> as
> deliberately as one does with a motorcycle?

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Love · Post by **Love** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:12 pm

I don't think these cars are going to get in concours competition, whether it's a correct 70 engine or not should only be important for trailer queens. The non syncro is slightly faster (80 teeth on the diff vs 82) than the syncro model, but that's probably lost in the effort/time needed to double clutch.
If it matters, get in touch with Miles Chappell, who knows how to refit a 70 case with a syncro transmission.
Bruce D.
----- Original Message ---- From: "goinhm@..." To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:50:26 AM Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Motor synchro on non-synchro?
Yes, it was constant mesh with dogs. Shifting to a higher gear was not a problem but shifting to a lower gear would cause a loud clunk noise or you would not be able to engage the gears. And you are correct, the car drivers were being too casual in the shifting. My first Honda 600 had the non-synchro style tranny and a friend suggested I double-clutch when I downshift. Once he explained double-clutching to me, I tried it and never had another problem or weird clunk noise when downshifting. But anytime I loaned the car to my friends, the clunk noise scared them and they thought something was wrong with my transmission. I ended up swapping out for a synchromesh transmission and have never put another non-synchro tranny in any of my 600s.
From a car collector point of view, it is probably best to have the correct parts in the car for its specific vintage. What do the members of this group think? If you were buying a 1970 Honda 600 sedan, would you want it to have the non-synchro transmission or the 1971 synchromesh transmission?
Dale

> Still constant mesh but dogs
> instead of syncros. Is that correct?
> If I drove one of the earlier cars what would I
> notice? Did they start using syncromesh since car
> drivers don't tend to make their shifts as
> deliberately as one does with a motorcycle?

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Curtis Martin · Post by **Curtis Martin** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:57 pm

So it's safe to say that the syncro in my '69 right hand drive is not
original... I have to admit though that if I'm going to drive the
car, as opposed to do a strait up resto for show purposes,I will take
function over form every tome.
Curtis

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, goinhm@... wrote:
> Yes, it was constant mesh with dogs. Shifting to a higher gear
was not a
> problem but shifting to a lower gear would cause a loud clunk
noise or you
> would not be able to engage the gears. And you are correct, the
car drivers
> were being too casual in the shifting. My first Honda 600 had the
non-synchro
> style tranny and a friend suggested I double-clutch when I
downshift. Once
> he explained double-clutching to me, I tried it and never had
another
> problem or weird clunk noise when downshifting. But anytime I
loaned the car to my
> friends, the clunk noise scared them and they thought something
was wrong
> with my transmission. I ended up swapping out for a synchromesh
transmission
> and have never put another non-synchro tranny in any of my 600s.
> From a car collector point of view, it is probably best to have
the correct
> parts in the car for its specific vintage. What do the members
of this
> group think? If you were buying a 1970 Honda 600 sedan, would
you want it to
> have the non-synchro transmission or the 1971 synchromesh
transmission?
> Dale
> Still constant mesh but dogs
> instead of syncros. Is that correct?
> If I drove one of the earlier cars what would I
> notice? Did they start using syncromesh since car
> drivers don't tend to make their shifts as
> deliberately as one does with a motorcycle?
> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
Money &
> Finance. (
http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

friend · Post by **friend** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:11 pm

Bruce;
I care to differ with you on the non-synchro vis the synchro trans. Fitting a synchro trans is simple and only requires cutting two protruding fins in the case to resemble the synchro case. Also, the non-synchro trans is slower, although it has a lower final gear, it only has one overdrive gear while the synchro trans has two over drive gears. This is why the speedometer gear is different, so the speedometer can be used with both transmissions. If a non-synchro trans gear is placed in a synchro trans the speedometer reads +5 mph at 60 mph. Although there are differences between the early and later speedometers, but that is an electrical issue not mechanical. If any of the group wants to check this out, use a Coupe as the tach will show the difference.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> Bruce
> Dewing
> Sent:
> Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:12 AM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners]
> RE: [2cylinderhondas] Motor synchro on non-synchro?
> I don't think these cars are going to get in concours competition, whether > it's a correct 70 engine or not should only be important for trailer > queens. The non syncro is slightly faster (80 teeth on the diff vs 82) > than the syncro model, but that's probably lost in the effort/time needed to > double clutch.
> If it matters, get in touch with Miles Chappell, who knows how to refit a > 70 case with a syncro transmission.
> Bruce
> D.
> -----
> Original Message ----
> From: "goinhm@aol. com"
>
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008
> 11:50:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Motor > synchro on non-synchro?
> Yes, it was constant mesh with dogs.   Shifting to a
> higher gear was not a problem but shifting to a lower gear would cause a loud > clunk noise or you would not be able to engage the gears. And you > are correct,  the car drivers were being too casual in the > shifting. My first Honda 600 had the non-synchro style tranny and > a friend suggested I double-clutch when I downshift. Once he explained > double-clutching to me, I tried it and never had another problem or > weird clunk noise when downshifting. But anytime I loaned the car to my > friends, the clunk noise scared them and they thought something was > wrong with my transmission. I ended up swapping out for a synchromesh > transmission and have never put another non-synchro tranny in any of my > 600s.
> From a car collector point of view, it is probably best to have the > correct parts in the car for its specific vintage.   What > do the members of this group think? If you were buying a 1970 > Honda 600 sedan, would you want it to have the non-synchro transmission > or the 1971 synchromesh transmission?
> Dale
> > Still constant mesh but dogs
> > instead of syncros. Is that correct?
> > If I drove one of the earlier cars what would I
> > notice? Did they
> > start using syncromesh since car
> > drivers don't tend to make their shifts
> > as
> > deliberately as one does with a motorcycle?
> It's
> Tax Time!
> Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money
> Finance.