Has anyone had any problems with a rocker shaft that wore out the
bore in the head. I'm still searching for the cause of my engine
ticking problem. I can't get the valves adjusted right because the
rocker shaft has movement up and down. I plan on having an insert
machined into the head bore to stop the play. Is this a common
problem?
Cylinder head
Re: Cylinder head
--- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "Colin "
wrote:
used camshaft housing and rocker assemblies. That's probably where
your ticking is coming from also. riceburner006
wrote:
Yes, Usually the shafts wear also. I'd suggest getting another good> Has anyone had any problems with a rocker shaft that wore out the
> bore in the head. I'm still searching for the cause of my engine
> ticking problem. I can't get the valves adjusted right because the
> rocker shaft has movement up and down. I plan on having an insert
> machined into the head bore to stop the play. Is this a common
> problem?
used camshaft housing and rocker assemblies. That's probably where
your ticking is coming from also. riceburner006
ticking
If the valves are too loose: maybe someone has reground the cam and
didn't install popups on the valve stems.
If 1 valve is tight after you adjust it, and it happens repeatedly,
you are having a problem with the valve seat. It is pounding into the
head. This sounds like a (intermitant sometimes) wrist pin tick. You
will need a new head, generally. The seats are cast in, and used
heads are easy to get (have 20).
The rocker shafts wear as soon as you put them in, the aluminum is
very hard. Don't waste your time machining parts for the casting,
just get another one. I'd give you one but I just tossed out 30 of
them some years ago as they never sell. In a couple hundred engines I
built, I neved detected a worn out rocker bore.
Miles
didn't install popups on the valve stems.
If 1 valve is tight after you adjust it, and it happens repeatedly,
you are having a problem with the valve seat. It is pounding into the
head. This sounds like a (intermitant sometimes) wrist pin tick. You
will need a new head, generally. The seats are cast in, and used
heads are easy to get (have 20).
The rocker shafts wear as soon as you put them in, the aluminum is
very hard. Don't waste your time machining parts for the casting,
just get another one. I'd give you one but I just tossed out 30 of
them some years ago as they never sell. In a couple hundred engines I
built, I neved detected a worn out rocker bore.
Miles
-
dealadayray
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:08 am
Re: ticking
Hi Colin;
I agree with what Miles is saying that your problem is most likely a
warn rocker arm shaft and not the housing. If the housing is warn where the
shaft rotates then other things are wrong with the housing too. Normally
the rocker shaft wears, which is supported by a shinny area on the warn
shaft, both ends not just one. And, it is on the top of the shaft and not
the lower side. Although I have seen rocker arms ground smooth (they go
flat right at the center of the riding surface to the cam see the attached
picture) which caused problems too. The "popups" Miles is referring to are
Lash Caps like the ones used on the Ford 289's with solid rockers. Tim
Mings H_mings@... has reground cams with lash caps that really puts
zip back in your motor.
But back to your problem, if it is the rockers, then you can have them
hard chromed and reground.
If still will not adjust then remove your housing and have the bottom
surfaced removing 3 thousands and use a thinner gasket to bring the rocker
arm closer to the valve stem. Unless there is an adjustable rocker arm
available we are forced to make things work.
Bill
I agree with what Miles is saying that your problem is most likely a
warn rocker arm shaft and not the housing. If the housing is warn where the
shaft rotates then other things are wrong with the housing too. Normally
the rocker shaft wears, which is supported by a shinny area on the warn
shaft, both ends not just one. And, it is on the top of the shaft and not
the lower side. Although I have seen rocker arms ground smooth (they go
flat right at the center of the riding surface to the cam see the attached
picture) which caused problems too. The "popups" Miles is referring to are
Lash Caps like the ones used on the Ford 289's with solid rockers. Tim
Mings H_mings@... has reground cams with lash caps that really puts
zip back in your motor.
But back to your problem, if it is the rockers, then you can have them
hard chromed and reground.
If still will not adjust then remove your housing and have the bottom
surfaced removing 3 thousands and use a thinner gasket to bring the rocker
arm closer to the valve stem. Unless there is an adjustable rocker arm
available we are forced to make things work.
Bill
-
dealadayray
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:08 am
Re: ticking
Also Colin;
I have had rockers with the flat spot click on me. I forgot to mention
it last night.
Bill
I have had rockers with the flat spot click on me. I forgot to mention
it last night.
Bill
Re: ticking
Thanks for all the help guys, let me tell you what I found with my
engine upon total teardown. Being that my car has 70,000 mile I
thought that the engine was a virgin, wrong, she has be worn and
punched out to .50 over. This could be a good thing, because every
thing is more fresh. The pistons, cylinders, rods, wrist pins, rings,
crank have no evidence of wear on them, they look REALLY good. My
valves were so carboned up that I thought they were melted, but after
a good cleaning, I saw that the valve and seat were in perfect shape.
I even did the old solvent in the intake and exhaust port trick, not
even a dribble from the valve. The valve stems look good, and did not
have lash caps. The cam lobes look very good and well as the wear on
the rocker arm. Now, the rocker shaft itself looks good. I check the
end with a micrometer and it wasn't out of round, but my head is
(hole is shaped like an egg now). I know you all think I should
replace the upper part of my head, but I feel that I can build it
stronger, faster, more reliable. I have one of the best machinists
known to man and I plan on boring, pressing in steel sleeves, boring
again, then openning up the oil feed holes. Hey, I am so used to
replacing rings on a teardown, but this car isn't like the rest. I
would like to hone out the cylinders, do you guys think that my used
rings will be able to break in again? What's up with the price of the
gasket kit? I am trankfull that none of my gaskets broke on teardown,
time for some aviation sealer. I hope I am taking the right steps to
making this car purrrr again. Thanks again,
Colin
-- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "william colford"
wrote:
engine upon total teardown. Being that my car has 70,000 mile I
thought that the engine was a virgin, wrong, she has be worn and
punched out to .50 over. This could be a good thing, because every
thing is more fresh. The pistons, cylinders, rods, wrist pins, rings,
crank have no evidence of wear on them, they look REALLY good. My
valves were so carboned up that I thought they were melted, but after
a good cleaning, I saw that the valve and seat were in perfect shape.
I even did the old solvent in the intake and exhaust port trick, not
even a dribble from the valve. The valve stems look good, and did not
have lash caps. The cam lobes look very good and well as the wear on
the rocker arm. Now, the rocker shaft itself looks good. I check the
end with a micrometer and it wasn't out of round, but my head is
(hole is shaped like an egg now). I know you all think I should
replace the upper part of my head, but I feel that I can build it
stronger, faster, more reliable. I have one of the best machinists
known to man and I plan on boring, pressing in steel sleeves, boring
again, then openning up the oil feed holes. Hey, I am so used to
replacing rings on a teardown, but this car isn't like the rest. I
would like to hone out the cylinders, do you guys think that my used
rings will be able to break in again? What's up with the price of the
gasket kit? I am trankfull that none of my gaskets broke on teardown,
time for some aviation sealer. I hope I am taking the right steps to
making this car purrrr again. Thanks again,
Colin
-- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "william colford"
wrote:
> Also Colin;
> I have had rockers with the flat spot click on me. I forgot to mention
> it last night.
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "william colford"
> To: ;
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 2:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] ticking
> > Hi Colin;
> > I agree with what Miles is saying that your problem is most likely
> a
> > warn rocker arm shaft and not the housing. If the housing is warn where
> the
> > shaft rotates then other things are wrong with the housing too. Normally
> > the rocker shaft wears, which is supported by a shinny area on the warn
> > shaft, both ends not just one. And, it is on the top of the shaft and not
> > the lower side. Although I have seen rocker arms ground smooth (they go
> > flat right at the center of the riding surface to the cam see the attached
> > picture) which caused problems too. The "popups" Miles is referring to
> are
> > Lash Caps like the ones used on the Ford 289's with solid rockers. Tim
> > Mings H_mings@m... has reground cams with lash caps that really puts
> > zip back in your motor.
> > But back to your problem, if it is the rockers, then you can have them
> > hard chromed and reground.
> > If still will not adjust then remove your housing and have the bottom
> > surfaced removing 3 thousands and use a thinner gasket to bring the rocker
> > arm closer to the valve stem. Unless there is an adjustable rocker arm
> > available we are forced to make things work.
> > Bill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To: > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 9:17 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] ticking
> > > If the valves are too loose: maybe someone has reground the cam and
> > > didn't install popups on the valve stems.
> > > If 1 valve is tight after you adjust it, and it happens repeatedly,
> > > you are having a problem with the valve seat. It is pounding into the
> > > head. This sounds like a (intermitant sometimes) wrist pin tick. You
> > > will need a new head, generally. The seats are cast in, and used
> > > heads are easy to get (have 20).
> > > The rocker shafts wear as soon as you put them in, the aluminum is
> > > very hard. Don't waste your time machining parts for the casting,
> > > just get another one. I'd give you one but I just tossed out 30 of
> > > them some years ago as they never sell. In a couple hundred engines I
> > > built, I neved detected a worn out rocker bore.
> > > Miles
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "Colin "
> > > wrote:
> > > > Has anyone had any problems with a rocker shaft that wore out the
> > > > bore in the head. I'm still searching for the cause of my engine
> > > > ticking problem. I can't get the valves adjusted right because the
> > > > rocker shaft has movement up and down. I plan on having an insert
> > > > machined into the head bore to stop the play. Is this a common
> > > > problem?
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Re: ticking
i did the same with mine using 7075 T6 aluminum, freezing bushing in liquid nitrogen & heating housing in oven, that was 10 years ago,car is not daily driver, I thought parts where expensive then for my budget car still runs ok,i adjust valves every season.O i had the shafts welded and reground
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Colin
>
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Monday, January 13, 2003 12:28
> AM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re:
> ticking
> Thanks for all the help guys, let me tell you what I found > with my > engine upon total teardown. Being that my car has 70,000 mile I
> thought that the engine was a virgin, wrong, she has be worn and
> punched out to .50 over. This could be a good thing, because every
> thing is more fresh. The pistons, cylinders, rods, wrist pins, rings,
> crank have no evidence of wear on them, they look REALLY good. My
> valves were so carboned up that I thought they were melted, but after
> a good cleaning, I saw that the valve and seat were in perfect shape.
> I even did the old solvent in the intake and exhaust port trick, not
> even a dribble from the valve. The valve stems look good, and did not
> have lash caps. The cam lobes look very good and well as the wear on
> the rocker arm. Now, the rocker shaft itself looks good. I check the
> end with a micrometer and it wasn't out of round, but my head is > (hole > is shaped like an egg now). I know you all think I should > replace the > upper part of my head, but I feel that I can build it > stronger, faster, > more reliable. I have one of the best machinists > known to man and I plan > on boring, pressing in steel sleeves, boring > again, then openning up the > oil feed holes. Hey, I am so used to > replacing rings on a teardown, but > this car isn't like the rest. I > would like to hone out the cylinders, do > you guys think that my used > rings will be able to break in again? What's > up with the price of the > gasket kit? I am trankfull that none of my > gaskets broke on teardown, > time for some aviation sealer. I hope I am > taking the right steps to > making this car purrrr again. Thanks > again, > Colin > -- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "william > colford" > wrote:
> > Also
> Colin;
> > I have had rockers with the flat spot
> click on me. I forgot to
> mention
> > it last night.
> Bill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> "william colford"
> > To:
> ;
>
> > Sent: Saturday, January
> 11, 2003 2:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] ticking
> > > Hi Colin;
> > I agree with what Miles
> is saying that your problem is
> most likely
> > a
> > > warn
> rocker arm shaft and not the housing. If the housing is > warn > where > > the > > > shaft rotates then other things are wrong with > the housing too.
> Normally
> > > the rocker shaft wears, which
> is supported by a shinny area on
> the warn
> > > shaft, both ends
> not just one. And, it is on the top of the
> shaft and not
> > the lower side. Although I have seen rocker arms ground smooth
> (they go
> > > flat right at the center of the riding surface to
> the cam see the
> attached
> > > picture) which caused problems
> too. The "popups" Miles is
> referring to
> > are
> Lash Caps like the ones used on the Ford 289's with solid > rockers.
> Tim
> > > Mings H_mings@m... has reground cams with
> lash caps that
> really puts
> > > zip back in your motor.
> > > But back to your problem, if it is
> the rockers, then you can
> have them
> > > hard chromed and
> reground.
> > > If still will not adjust then remove your housing and
> have the
> bottom
> > > surfaced removing 3 thousands and use a
> thinner gasket to bring
> the rocker
> > > arm closer to the valve
> stem. Unless there is an adjustable
> rocker arm
> available we are forced to make things work.
> > > Bill
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
>
> > > To:
>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 10,
> 2003 9:17 PM
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] ticking
> > > > If the valves are too loose: maybe someone
> has reground the cam
> and
> > > > didn't install popups on the
> valve stems.
> > > > If 1 valve is tight after you
> adjust it, and it happens
> repeatedly,
> > > > you are having a
> problem with the valve seat. It is pounding
> into the
> head. This sounds like a (intermitant sometimes) wrist pin > tick.
> You
> > > > will need a new head, generally. The seats are cast in, > and used > > > > heads are easy to get (have 20).
> > > > The rocker shafts wear as soon as you put them in, the > aluminum > is > > > > very hard. Don't waste your time machining > parts for the > casting, > > > > just get another one. I'd give > you one but I just tossed out 30 > of > > > > them some years ago > as they never sell. In a couple hundred > engines I > > > > built, > I neved detected a worn out rocker bore.
> Miles
> > > > --- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "Colin
> "
> > > >
> wrote:
> > > > > Has anyone had any problems with a rocker shaft
> that wore out
> the
> > > > > bore in the head. I'm still
> searching for the cause of my
> engine
> > > > > ticking
> problem. I can't get the valves adjusted right
> because the
> > > rocker shaft has movement up and down. I plan on having an
> insert
> > > > > machined into the head bore to stop the
> play. Is this a common
> > > > > problem?
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send
> an email to:
> 2cylinderhondas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
> to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > To unsubscribe from this
> group, send an email to:
> 2cylinderhondas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> to:
> 2cylinderhondas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Your
> use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service
> .
Re: tRicking
If you wanna make something trick, have your machinist put in roller
needle bearings.
**Rings: If the end gap is within spec .008" to .012" but not more
than wear limit of .015" and they are not worn on the *flats* then
you can re-use them. Better check the rings lands on the pistons if
they have too much slop you will need pistons.
Miles
*********I know you all think I should
needle bearings.
**Rings: If the end gap is within spec .008" to .012" but not more
than wear limit of .015" and they are not worn on the *flats* then
you can re-use them. Better check the rings lands on the pistons if
they have too much slop you will need pistons.
Miles
*********I know you all think I should
> replace the upper part of my head, but I feel that I can build it
> stronger, faster, more reliable. I have one of the best machinists
> known to man and I plan on boring, pressing in steel sleeves, boring
> again, then opening up the oil feed holes. Hey, I am so used to
> replacing rings on a teardown, but this car isn't like the rest. I
> would like to hone out the cylinders, do you guys think that my used
> rings will be able to break in again?
Re: tRicking
Well, my rocker shafts were worn after all, one worse than the
others. My machinist buddy mic'd the cylinders and piston and all the
tolerances were good. He heard the engine noise, and judging by the
amount of wear, does not think that the valve train caused all of the
racket. Tomorrow I plan on putting it back together, with great care.
Hopefully my sound with disappear as mysteriously at it came. Miles,
thanks for the specs, my only question now is, how do I align the cam
timing. I'm sure that I could align the timing mark on the
crank/crankcase, but is there a mark on the cam too, if so how? If
you can let me know, I am going to call in sick to work to get this
little car going. Oh ya, I couldn't believe it. While driving around
today (not in the honda), I saw another 600 parked on the street,
crazy.
others. My machinist buddy mic'd the cylinders and piston and all the
tolerances were good. He heard the engine noise, and judging by the
amount of wear, does not think that the valve train caused all of the
racket. Tomorrow I plan on putting it back together, with great care.
Hopefully my sound with disappear as mysteriously at it came. Miles,
thanks for the specs, my only question now is, how do I align the cam
timing. I'm sure that I could align the timing mark on the
crank/crankcase, but is there a mark on the cam too, if so how? If
you can let me know, I am going to call in sick to work to get this
little car going. Oh ya, I couldn't believe it. While driving around
today (not in the honda), I saw another 600 parked on the street,
crazy.
Re: tRicking Timing
Rotate engine so rods are at TDC, check to see if notch on pulley is
also at TDC. If not, hold the pulley with a thin 22mm wrench and
loosen the 17mm bolt, rotate pulley around 180 degrees and retighten.
After top end is all together but w/o the rockers in set crank pulley
notch to the T mark on the alternator cover.
Sometimes there are 2 marks on the cam sprocket, one is cast in. If
only 1 mark is present - use it. If 2 are visible use the one which
looks like it is filed in. In either case align the mark with top of
cam box, use a straight edge to help. Lift up hard on cam and flip
chain link by link until the cam is parallel. If your cam chain or
guide roller is worn or if you have shaved the head the marks will
not line up correctly. In this case it is better if the line is
leaning to the back slightly. Leaning forward and you lose power.
Once the cam is set finish assy of rockers, check timing again,
adjust valves etc. Rotate engine a couple times with a wrench to be
sure your pistons don't hit anything (valves).
Happy Trails
also at TDC. If not, hold the pulley with a thin 22mm wrench and
loosen the 17mm bolt, rotate pulley around 180 degrees and retighten.
After top end is all together but w/o the rockers in set crank pulley
notch to the T mark on the alternator cover.
Sometimes there are 2 marks on the cam sprocket, one is cast in. If
only 1 mark is present - use it. If 2 are visible use the one which
looks like it is filed in. In either case align the mark with top of
cam box, use a straight edge to help. Lift up hard on cam and flip
chain link by link until the cam is parallel. If your cam chain or
guide roller is worn or if you have shaved the head the marks will
not line up correctly. In this case it is better if the line is
leaning to the back slightly. Leaning forward and you lose power.
Once the cam is set finish assy of rockers, check timing again,
adjust valves etc. Rotate engine a couple times with a wrench to be
sure your pistons don't hit anything (valves).
Happy Trails