miss
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plowman4life
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:27 am
miss
Ok so I got my carb clean all new kit float set per manual also small fuel screen under float is left out all new orings acceleration pump new tune up new accell coil high out put and new plugs and fuel filter at carb in line and one at tank a plastic boat tank till I get original cleaned. Ok idles and cranks very good seems like when you really pull out quick it wants to spit and stumble but if you drive it normal it runs good.carb has been tore apart and cleaned 4 times all jets and holes in jets have been chased and blown out thoroughly I'm wandering if they make a electronic ignition for the 600 maybe more spark I'dk any ideas ?
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Eric Geiger
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:38 am
Re: miss
Advance the timing a little with the vacuum advance and try again. That solved all my problems when I would sputter from a stop.
------------------------------------------Eric Geiger
PRG-Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX
Egeiger@...
------------------------------------------Eric Geiger
PRG-Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX
Egeiger@...
On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:25 PM, "
plowman4life@...
" wrote:
Ok so I got my carb clean all new kit float set per manual also small fuel screen under float is left out all new orings acceleration pump new tune up new accell coil high out put and new plugs and fuel filter at carb in line and one at tank a plastic boat tank till I get original cleaned. Ok idles and cranks very good seems like when you really pull out quick it wants to spit and stumble but if you drive it normal it runs good.carb has been tore apart and cleaned 4 times all jets and holes in jets have been chased and blown out thoroughly I'm wandering if they make a electronic ignition for the 600 maybe more spark I'dk any ideas ?
Re: miss
The stock ignition system works fine on these cars. I suggest you take a look at your timing and check on the condition of your vacuum and mechanical advance systems.
1. At about 1100 rpms, use a timing light to verify the mark on the pulley is lined up with the "F" mark on the crankcase. And it should be locked on the position and not jumping around erratically.
2. Check the vacuum advance is working. Disconnect the small diameter hose from the carb to the vacuum advance inlet on the engine.
With a hose connected to the vacuum advance inlet, create a vacuum and see if the engine rpm increases or use your timing light to see if the timing mark is moving. To create a vacuum, you can stick the tube in your mouth and trying sucking on it or use a tool such as a Mighty-Vac. A suction should cause the timing mark to shift. If you don't see this, you may have a bad vacuum advance or it is not connected at the distributor breaker plate.
3. Check the mechanical advance. With the vacuum advance hose disconnected, increase the engine rpm and look at the distributor breaker plate. As you increase the rpms from 1000 to 3000, you should see the breaker plate slowly rotate. The problem which occurs with the mechanical advance is the two springs need replacing due to heat temper over the years of use. When you increase the rpms, instead of the breaker plate moving slowly to its high rpm final position, it jumps instantly to its final position which causes the engine miss which you experience. The fix is to replace the two springs.
If you look in the sedan service manual, it shows the timing angle as a function of engine rpms for the vacuum and mechanical advance. Most of the Honda 600 cars with high mileage engines need the two springs in the distributor replaced to return the advance timing back to original specs.
I can't tell you where to buy new springs specific for this car.
good luck,
Dale
In a message dated 1/15/2014 8:25:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, plowman4life@... writes:
1. At about 1100 rpms, use a timing light to verify the mark on the pulley is lined up with the "F" mark on the crankcase. And it should be locked on the position and not jumping around erratically.
2. Check the vacuum advance is working. Disconnect the small diameter hose from the carb to the vacuum advance inlet on the engine.
With a hose connected to the vacuum advance inlet, create a vacuum and see if the engine rpm increases or use your timing light to see if the timing mark is moving. To create a vacuum, you can stick the tube in your mouth and trying sucking on it or use a tool such as a Mighty-Vac. A suction should cause the timing mark to shift. If you don't see this, you may have a bad vacuum advance or it is not connected at the distributor breaker plate.
3. Check the mechanical advance. With the vacuum advance hose disconnected, increase the engine rpm and look at the distributor breaker plate. As you increase the rpms from 1000 to 3000, you should see the breaker plate slowly rotate. The problem which occurs with the mechanical advance is the two springs need replacing due to heat temper over the years of use. When you increase the rpms, instead of the breaker plate moving slowly to its high rpm final position, it jumps instantly to its final position which causes the engine miss which you experience. The fix is to replace the two springs.
If you look in the sedan service manual, it shows the timing angle as a function of engine rpms for the vacuum and mechanical advance. Most of the Honda 600 cars with high mileage engines need the two springs in the distributor replaced to return the advance timing back to original specs.
I can't tell you where to buy new springs specific for this car.
good luck,
Dale
In a message dated 1/15/2014 8:25:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, plowman4life@... writes:
> Ok so I got my carb clean all new kit float set per manual also small fuel > screen under float is left out all new orings acceleration pump new tune up > new accell coil high out put and new plugs and fuel filter at carb in line and > one at tank a plastic boat tank till I get original cleaned. Ok idles and > cranks very good seems like when you really pull out quick it wants to spit > and stumble but if you drive it normal it runs good.carb has been tore apart > and cleaned 4 times all jets and holes in jets have been chased and blown out > thoroughly I'm wandering if they make a electronic ignition for the 600 maybe > more spark I'dk any ideas ?
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plowman4life
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:27 am
Re: miss
Ty all for the tips took points breaker plate off the mighty honda and it was rusted wouldn't advance any am gonna clean and free it up and may have a fast and furious big six afterwards will update later.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
Re: miss [1 Attachment]
While it's off, be sure to check the advance springs for tightness, and count the number of coil turns (they should match).
Bruce D.
Santa Clara, CA
From:
plowman4life
To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Friday, January 17, 2014 6:36 AM
Subject:
Re: [anzhonda600owners] miss [1 Attachment]
Ty all for the tips took points breaker plate off the mighty honda and it was rusted wouldn't advance any am gonna clean and free it up and may have a fast and furious big six afterwards will update later.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
Bruce D.
Santa Clara, CA
From:
plowman4life
To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Friday, January 17, 2014 6:36 AM
Subject:
Re: [anzhonda600owners] miss [1 Attachment]
Ty all for the tips took points breaker plate off the mighty honda and it was rusted wouldn't advance any am gonna clean and free it up and may have a fast and furious big six afterwards will update later.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
Re: miss
The plate for the mechanical advance is a bit rusty. It will need to be cleaned and lubricated. You will find some small ball bearings which help the plate rotate. Check the condition of the bearings and the plate where they make contact. Also, check the mechanical advance weights. They should be free to swing out and the springs should be strong enough to keep the weights from swinging outward at too low of an rpm.
good luck,
Dale
good luck,
Dale
> Ty all for the tips took points breaker plate off the mighty honda and it > was rusted wouldn't advance any am gonna clean and free it up and may have a > fast and furious big six afterwards will update later.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G
> LTE smartphone
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plowman4life
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:27 am
Re: miss [1 Attachment]
Ok cleaned breaker plate greased it no play in plate rotates free checked mechanical advance and lobe was froze on shift got all that cleaned and freed up still has small miss if u just stomp gas to floor how much is too much to advance it?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
Re: miss
With the idle rpm at 1150, you want to see the notch on the crank pulley lined up with "F" mark on the crankcase This would be 10 degrees BTDC.
Your "miss" could be caused by several things and playing with the advance doesn't solve the real problem.
Here are some other areas to consider;
1. the accelerator pump may be delivering too little or too much fuel when you "stomp gas to floor". The accelerator pump does have some other positions you can try to increase/decrease the fuel delivery.
With the carb off the engine and held level to the ground, if you depress the throttle, you should see a stream of gas shoot from the front of the carb. It should shoot a foot or more from the carb.
2. your carb may have excess wear on it. The carb's venturi piston has a needle which goes into a seat on the body of the carb. This stuff will wear out and causes the fuel to be metered incorrectly. In the piston, you can change the number of shim washers and this will change the spacing between the needle and the seat.
3. With the engine running, take a vacuum reading and check if it has a steady reading or is it erratic. Also, is the reading in the range of 17 to 22 inches? A vacuum leak or too low a vacuum will effect the fuel delivery of the carb.
4. What is the condition of your ignition coil spark plug wires?
5. Is your cam shaft properly timed to the crankshaft?
6. Are the intake and exhaust rocker arms set for the proper clearance?
7. Is your engine compression about 160 psi for each cylinder?
Are both cylinders reading about the same?
What is the condition of your piston rings?
8. When you do a quick acceleration, do you see bluish smoke out the exhaust? If you answer yes to this question, no amount of tinkering with your ignition timing is going to solve your problem.
If you have a tired, old engine your problems are probably due to many things. If your engine is low mileage, the problems should be easier to solve. Tell us some more about the state of your engine.
Going back to your original question about ignition timing, I would stick to the recommended stock settings while trying to resolve the car problems.
good luck,
Dale
Your "miss" could be caused by several things and playing with the advance doesn't solve the real problem.
Here are some other areas to consider;
1. the accelerator pump may be delivering too little or too much fuel when you "stomp gas to floor". The accelerator pump does have some other positions you can try to increase/decrease the fuel delivery.
With the carb off the engine and held level to the ground, if you depress the throttle, you should see a stream of gas shoot from the front of the carb. It should shoot a foot or more from the carb.
2. your carb may have excess wear on it. The carb's venturi piston has a needle which goes into a seat on the body of the carb. This stuff will wear out and causes the fuel to be metered incorrectly. In the piston, you can change the number of shim washers and this will change the spacing between the needle and the seat.
3. With the engine running, take a vacuum reading and check if it has a steady reading or is it erratic. Also, is the reading in the range of 17 to 22 inches? A vacuum leak or too low a vacuum will effect the fuel delivery of the carb.
4. What is the condition of your ignition coil spark plug wires?
5. Is your cam shaft properly timed to the crankshaft?
6. Are the intake and exhaust rocker arms set for the proper clearance?
7. Is your engine compression about 160 psi for each cylinder?
Are both cylinders reading about the same?
What is the condition of your piston rings?
8. When you do a quick acceleration, do you see bluish smoke out the exhaust? If you answer yes to this question, no amount of tinkering with your ignition timing is going to solve your problem.
If you have a tired, old engine your problems are probably due to many things. If your engine is low mileage, the problems should be easier to solve. Tell us some more about the state of your engine.
Going back to your original question about ignition timing, I would stick to the recommended stock settings while trying to resolve the car problems.
good luck,
Dale
> Ok cleaned breaker plate greased it no play in plate rotates free checked > mechanical advance and lobe was froze on shift got all that cleaned and freed > up still has small miss if u just stomp gas to floor how much is too much to > advance it?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G
> LTE smartphone