leaking master cylinder

[eric.geiger]

I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from http://www.honda600carparts.com/
i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
PLEASE HELP!!

[Random Name]

Hey,  I'm having the same problem right now, like right now ....crazy. I'm not a mechanic but a mechanic did the rebuild and it started to leak the same way. He thought that the MC was bad, to pitted or something. I ordered a rebuilt sleeved one and it is doing the same thing? I was getting fed up with the mech and getting ready to go to another one next week to have him take a look??????
So I'm looking for the same help as well
Thanks  Kurt

On Jul 2, 2012, at 6:16 PM, "eric.geiger" wrote:
I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from http://www.honda600carparts.com/
i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
PLEASE HELP!! =

[brad fenn]

The only thing I can think of,if the seals are facing the right direction that they are not sized right. You might try fitting one of the seals into the master cylinder bore by itself to check fit.
From:
eric.geiger To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Mon, July 2, 2012 8:16:59 PM Subject:
[anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from http://www.honda600carparts.com/
i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
PLEASE HELP!!

[John Mills]

Eric, if the seal closest to the driver is good, installed in the correct direction and the bore is good, is it possible the brass liner has been misinstalled??

[Random Name]

Eric
I bought my parts and resleeved MC from Bruce as well, that would be the only common thing we have going on this issue? I was looking at buying another rebuild kit and have a shop have a go at mine?? The shop knows nothing about Honda 600s but I don't think this is a specialty type of thing???
 Kurt

On Jul 2, 2012, at 8:07 PM, John Mills wrote:
Eric, if the seal closest to the driver is good, installed in the correct direction and the bore is good, is it possible the brass liner has been misinstalled??

[Eric Geiger]

i have to get ahold of the owner of the 600carparts website and see what he says.   i cant figure it out for the life of me.
has anyone rebuilt one of these themselves???
For the last seal (closest to the firewall/brake pedal) how did you get the seal over the enlarged part of the piston???  did you just soak it in brake fluid and stretch it carefully?  or is there a special way to do this.  thats the only thing i can possibly think of.
When i first rebuilt it i left the last seal on as the original because i was unsure of how to get it over the larger portion of the piston.  after installation and during the brake bleeding process when it started leaking i took it apart again and decided to take the old seal off and put the new one on.  the old seal broke while trying to removing it and stretching it to get it over the piston and then i carefully stretched the new (brake fluid soaked) seal over the piston making sure not to damage it. it still leaked when i bled the brakes again.  i took it apart 2 more times and checked the direction of all the seals against an old 3/4 master i had laying around and the directions all match.  when putting it back together i made sure none of the seals folded over onto themselves but still the same result.
very frustrating!!
Eric J. Geiger
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX  phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX  fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX  mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com

On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:07 PM, John Mills wrote:
> Eric, if the seal closest to the driver is good, installed in the correct direction and the bore is good, is it possible the brass liner has been misinstalled??
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eric.geiger egeiger@...
> To: anzhonda600owners anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16 pm
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
> i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from
> http://www.honda600carparts.com/
> i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
> i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
> short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
> i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
> PLEASE HELP!!

[John Mills]

measure inside diameter of the thing, also take some brake clean and paper towels and clean and dry everything, Are you sure your lines and hoses are not leaking, what hose are you using is it weeping. Can you build a bench tester and check the whole thing out on the bench?? it will take some spare fittings. Who does these for Bruce??are they bored after sleeved? pressed in as is? I'd be calling Bruce asking WTF.

[Eric Geiger]

oh wow this is very good to find out!!!  i wonder if something went wrong with the place that re-sleeves his cores??
do you have any contact info for him besides email??
send me a personal email and we should draft up a email to him together regarding this situation.  is yours also 13/16"?
I find it very odd were both having the same issue with the same part from the same vendor.
Eric J. Geiger
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX  phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX  fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX  mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Eric
> I bought my parts and resleeved MC from Bruce as well, that would be the only common thing we have going on this issue? I was looking at buying another rebuild kit and have a shop have a go at mine?? The shop knows nothing about Honda 600s but I don't > think this is a specialty type of thing???
>  Kurt
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 8:07 PM, John Mills jbmkwaj@...
> > wrote:
> > Eric, if the seal closest to the driver is good, installed in the correct direction and the bore is good, is it possible the brass liner has been misinstalled??
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: eric.geiger > egeiger@...
> > To: anzhonda600owners > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16 pm
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
> > i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from
> > http://www.honda600carparts.com/
> > i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
> > i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
> > short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
> > i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
> > PLEASE HELP!!
> =
[/quote]

[John Mills]

I have successfully rebuilt these, I do so many different types of vehicles I don't quite remember how the piston is on these. Isn't there a screw in the center of the piston you need to remove to dissasemble the piston. My books are in the garage - I'll look it up tomorrow.

[Eric Geiger]

ya ill get a dial caliper tomorrow and measure the inside bore.  as for any hoses leaking i highly doubt it i made sure it was pretty bone dry and didn't see any fluid anywhere else but inside the car.  i don't have any carpet in my car currently so its easy to see the fluid lek onto the bare metal on the floor boards.
Ya something is definitely fishy with this situation hopefully bruce can shed some light on it.
Eric J. Geiger
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX  phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX  fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX  mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com

On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:27 PM, John Mills wrote:
> measure inside diameter of the thing, also take some brake clean and paper towels and clean and dry everything, Are you sure your lines and hoses are not leaking, what hose are you using is it weeping. Can you build > a bench tester and check the whole thing out on the bench?? it will take some spare fittings. Who does these for Bruce??are they bored after sleeved? pressed in as is? I'd be calling Bruce asking WTF.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: notrace07 notrace07@...
> To: anzhonda600owners anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:17 pm
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> Eric
> I bought my parts and resleeved MC from Bruce as well, that would be the only common thing we have going on this issue? I was looking at buying another rebuild kit and have a shop have a go at mine?? The shop knows nothing about Honda 600s but I don't > think this is a specialty type of thing???
>  Kurt
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 8:07 PM, John Mills jbmkwaj@...
> > wrote:
> > Eric, if the seal closest to the driver is good, installed in the correct direction and the bore is good, is it possible the brass liner has been misinstalled??
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: eric.geiger > egeiger@...
> > To: anzhonda600owners > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16 pm
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
> > i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from
> > http://www.honda600carparts.com/
> > i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
> > i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
> > short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
> > i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
> > PLEASE HELP!!
> =