Re: [2cylinderhondas] seals

friend · Post by **friend** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:23 pm

If kevin doesn't know I already have them available and you don't have to wait for 10 people to purchase them.
Time proven and I have a chrome insert for them too.
Around $200? I have them for $232.00 for the front and $205.00 for the rear of a sedan. $232.00 for the Coupe front and $80.00 for the hatch seal. also have door seals like originals and roof weather strips for the coupe. This is brand new and the corners are shaped to fit the windshield. I have offered them to other owners for over 15 years.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > Kevin > Sent:
> Friday, April 09, 2010 9:15
> AM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] seals
> thanks for the input guys i talked to the extruder this morning and will > send them a piece of the windshield seal and the door and rear window seals. I > have done well with the shocks and caliper repair kits on the group ebay and > craigs list so its time to give back and move on to the next part thanks kevin > P.S. there will be no need to preorder I will bear the cost.

friend · Post by **friend** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:40 am

�
Windshield seals;
Lately I have seen some e-mails of owners looking to get a windshield seal or gasket made for the Honda 600 sedan and coupe.
The short story is a quality product will cost more than a cheap product.
You will need the right amount of rubber on both sides of the windshield and the car's body to hold it in place. If it is less then the windshield seal is not safe. 3M stopped selling windshield rope (a sticky product used to hold windshields in place without a seal) to the public because they (we) used it without consideration for the controls and safety needed to ensure the windshield would seal, and would stay in place. They saw the liability and removed the cause.
The long story is.....
I have had them made for a number of years and lived through a number of price increases to the costs of rubber (it is made from oil by-products) which have a tendency to increase with the change of the wind. So the price of the product goes up accordingly. I have them made by a company that owns the rights to shaping the corners (which adds to their cost) but there is less stress on the rubber from stretching in the corners. Stressing the rubber causes premature ageing which makes the rubber look old and even fail.  Other companies use a twisting method, this works, but makes it necessary to stretch the rubber some to make it fit, which causes it to stress and crack. Some owners have said this is a high price for a small car, I agree, the price is up there.
But, price out a windshield seal for a new Honda Fit or a Honda Civic, they are in the 3 to 4 hundred range. Then you're out another $80 to $100 to have it put in. They (the windshield guy) charge according to the insurance they have to cover damages to windshields that brake while they are trying to put them in.
What goes into the price of the rubber?
The make up of the rubber product directly affects the cost of the item. Some have a hardness quality that needs to be maintained other items need to have a resiliency to sun and the effects the sun has to the rubber.  Which is the amount of carbon the rubber has in it.
Saying you can have this or that made for a lesser price has to be looked at for the quality of the rubber being used. Can I get them made for much less, sure. There are a couple of companies out there making a rubber product for much less. But there are questions that have to be asked, will it last? What is its resiliency to the sun and will it hold the windshield in place during an accident?   The product I use has proven to be resilient to the sun, stays pliable for many years (I have changed out the chrome strip several times in my cars over the years) and the rubber seal stays pliable making it easy to change out the chrome strip.   The seal is made to the exact dimensions Honda used, it goes in without extra sealant and fits like a glove. The ends are not glued together so that extra rubber can be pushed into the window frame to keep the shrinking from leaving a gap in the seal that all Honda 600's have.  Mine don't.
Cost:
What I try and cover is the cost of having them made for other Honda 600 owners.
Since the company I use purchases the rubber compound in 55 gallon drums (which is most likely they way all manufacturers purchase it) having one seal made is very expensive as all the product has to be used right away or it hardens and is useless.   So I have an agreement that I wait until they (the company) has enough orders to use all the product. When I say orders I am speaking of other types of molds or parts for other cars using the same compound. Some times this will take several weeks to pull together and this is where the 6 to 8 weeks of wait time comes in to play.
Then there is shipping. Shipping from the manufacturer to me so I can inspect it and then send it to you. That can be 5% to 8% of the total cost of the item.  I look at the rubber because QC or quality control, is necessary to keep you the owner happy. If I will put them on my car then I send them out. Many of you can remember or know of the Sedan rubber sway bar bushings Honda sold, they could be squeezed into a ball by your hand. I make them out of 80 shore (shore is a hardness quality of the rubber) and you can not squeeze them out of shape with your hand or even a vice. That is because I needed them for my Honda 600's and I needed them to be right both in looks and function.
So, you say, I must be making something off the sale of these items. Well, really not. Some days it is $10.00 other days it is $6.00. The cost changes with the cost of the many hands touching it. I just raised the price from $230.00 to $232.00 because shipping and taxes went up and It cost me $2.00 to send out a couple of seals. That is $2.00 out of my pocket to sell it.
End of Story.
By the way, I have some side marker lenses both amber and red, coming in the next month or so. They look just like the originals. Yes, I needed them for my cars. So you make out.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > brucerb@...
> Sent:
> Friday, April 09, 2010 9:50
> AM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] seals
> how about the
> rear window gasket for the sedan?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> "Kevin"
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Friday, April 9, 2010
> 9:15:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas]
> seals
> thanks for the input guys i talked to the extruder this morning and will > send them a piece of the windshield seal and the door and rear window seals. I > have done well with the shocks and caliper repair kits on the group ebay and > craigs list so its time to give back and move on to the next part thanks kevin > P.S. there will be no need to preorder I will bear the cost.

friend · Post by **friend** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:06 am

�
Windshield seals and other parts;
There are several compound's and ways to reach the goal of having a seal on the car. There is a rear window seal for a Diamond T pickup 1939 that is available, it has less rubber in the returns (which makes it very hard to install as the windshield keeps coming back out) and is not shaped for the corners, it is without a channel so it will not accept a chrome strip. To get it around the corners it must be pulled and stretched to fit (which leaves less rubber in the return where it pulls the glass into the car's window frame) which causes a safety issue. Stretching the rubber causes it to stress and can cause premature cracking.   I have seen them split and installers break the windshield. I advise restorers not to purchase it. But it is available and about $125.00 before shipping and handling the last time I checked which was a few years ago.
The seal I use on my restorations is made so that a locking strip is not needed, it has extra carbon black in the compound so it will be more resilient to fading and stays pliable for a long time.   The Mylar chrome strip that is offered will turn a yellow tone in a couple of years. It does it on Chevy's too.   So, if the rubber hardens from the sun then getting another strip in it will be tough.
Also, the corners are shaped to fit the windshield, this adds to the cost of the seal but it greatly reduces the need for stretching the rubber and in fact I tell owners using it, not to pull it rather push it into place.   And, push extra rubber into the frame before gluing it at the bottom to prevent the "bottom of the windshield gap" seen on all Honda 600's from shrinkage.  If you would like to see a picture of a then and now of a car with the seal in it, go to - http://www.sdautomuseum.org/ then go to the current exhibition Economy of Motion for what it looks like now, and http://www.honda600owners.com/ to see what the seal looked like when it was first installed in early July 2001 close to 9 years before now.
If you don't do the research, look up the problems associated with the product and test it and the manufacturer who is making it then you will get an inferior product. It really does not matter to me what seal you use.   I do ask that you as owners of older vehicles be aware of the other drivers on the road, we have a responsibility to them to drive a safe operating vehicle. Bring your restoration back to it's original condition both in operation and aesthetics, is what this group is all about.  If you use NOS (a hobby term for New Old Stock) part, it means literally that the item has been resting on the shelf for quite a while and if it's operability has demised due to the effects of time then it too needs to be restored. Or, left on the shelf and admired as a product of a past time.   When replacing Tires, Suspension, Steering, Engine and Electrical parts make sure it meets or exceeds the manufacturers and DOT requirements.
See you at the drive in.
Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > TOM THIES > Sent:
> Monday, April 12, 2010 3:27
> PM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> Re:
> [2cylinderhondas] seals
> �
> I have never seen one of Bills Windshield seals so what do you mean by > cheap as far as a safety factor. are they not like the original seals > and if not what is the difference.
> Tom T
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > Daniel Middleton
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent:
> > Monday, April 12, 2010 11:51
> > AM
> > Subject:
> > RE: [2cylinderhondas]
> > seals
> > ...bills winshield seals are cheap, when you consider the safety > > factor...
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > From:
> > fox@.... edu
> > Date: Sun,
> > 11 Apr 2010 09:08:54 -0400
> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas]
> > seals
> > Anything for the s600?
> > roadster
> > From:
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > [2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> > billmyong@earthlink .net [billmyong@earthlin k.net]
> > Sent:
> > Saturday, April 10, 2010 6:40 AM
> > To:
> > Anzhonda600owners;
> > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject:
> > RE:
> > [2cylinderhondas] seals
> > �
> > Windshield seals;
> > Lately I have seen some e-mails of owners looking to get a windshield > > seal or gasket made for the Honda 600 sedan and coupe.
> > The short story is a quality product will cost more than a cheap > > product. You will need the right amount of rubber on both sides > > of the windshield and the car's body to hold it in place. If it is > > less then the windshield seal is not safe. 3M stopped selling > > windshield rope (a sticky product used to hold windshields in place without > > a seal) to the public because they (we) used it without consideration for > > the controls and safety needed to ensure the windshield would seal, and > > would stay in place. They saw the liability and removed the > > cause.
> > The long story is.....
> > I have had them made for a number of years and lived through a > > number of price increases to the costs of rubber (it is made from oil > > by-products) which have a tendency to increase with the change of the > > wind. So the price of the product goes up accordingly. I have > > them made by a company that owns the rights to shaping the corners (which > > adds to their cost) but there is less stress on the rubber from > > stretching in the corners. Stressing the rubber causes premature > > ageing which makes the rubber look old and even fail.  Other > > companies use a twisting method, this works, but makes it necessary to > > stretch the rubber some to make it fit, which causes it to stress and > > crack. Some owners have said this is a high price for a small car, I > > agree, the price is up there.
> > But, price
> > out a windshield seal for a new Honda Fit or a Honda Civic, they are in the > > 3 to 4 hundred range. Then you're out another $80 to $100 to have it > > put in. They (the windshield guy) charge according to the > > insurance they have to cover damages to windshields that brake while they > > are trying to put them in.
> > What goes into the price of the
> > rubber?
> > The make up of the rubber product directly affects the cost > > of the item. Some have a hardness quality that needs to be maintained > > other items need to have a resiliency to sun and the effects the > > sun has to the rubber.  Which is the amount of carbon the rubber > > has in it. Saying you can have this or that made for a lesser price > > has to be looked at for the quality of the rubber being used. Can I > > get them made for much less, sure. There are a couple of companies out > > there making a rubber product for much less. But there are questions > > that have to be asked, will it last? What is its resiliency to the sun and > > will it hold the windshield in place during an accident?
> > The product I use has proven to be resilient to the sun, stays pliable > > for many years (I have changed out the chrome strip several times in my cars > > over the years) and the rubber seal stays pliable making it easy > > to change out the chrome strip.   The seal is made to the > > exact dimensions Honda used, it goes in without extra sealant and fits like > > a glove. The ends are not glued together so that extra rubber can be > > pushed into the window frame to keep the shrinking from leaving a gap in the > > seal that all Honda 600's have.  Mine > > don't.
> > Cost:
> > What I try and cover is the cost of having them made for other Honda > > 600 owners. Since the company I use purchases the rubber compound in > > 55 gallon drums (which is most likely they way all manufacturers purchase > > it) having one seal made is very expensive as all the product has to > > be used right away or it hardens and is useless.   So I have an > > agreement that I wait until they (the company) has enough orders to use > > all the product. When I say orders I am speaking of other types of > > molds or parts for other cars using the same compound. Some times this > > will take several weeks to pull together and this is where the 6 to > > 8 weeks of wait time comes in to play.
> > Then there is shipping. Shipping from the manufacturer to me so > > I can inspect it and then send it to you. That can be 5% to 8% of > > the total cost of the item.  I look at the rubber because QC > > or quality control, is necessary to keep you the owner happy. If I > > will put them on my car then I send them out. Many of you can remember > > or know of the Sedan rubber sway bar bushings Honda sold, they could be > > squeezed into a ball by your hand. I make them out of 80 shore (shore > > is a hardness quality of the rubber) and you can not squeeze > > them out of shape with your hand or even a vice. That is because > > I needed them for my Honda 600's and I needed them to be right both in looks > > and function.
> > So, you say, I must be making something off the sale of these > > items. Well, really not. Some days it is $10.00 other days it is > > $6.00. The cost changes with the cost of the many hands touching > > it. I just raised the price from $230.00 to $232.00 because shipping > > and taxes went up and It cost me $2.00 to send out a couple of seals.
> > That is $2.00 out of my pocket to sell it.
> > End of Story.
> > By the way, I have some side marker lenses both amber and red, coming > > in the next month or so. They look just like the originals. Yes, > > I needed them for my cars. So you make out.
> > Bill
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > [mailto:2cylinderho ndas@yahoogroups .com]
> > > On Behalf Of
> > > brucerb@comcast. net
> > > Sent:
> > > Friday, April 09, 2010 9:50
> > > AM
> > > To:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject:
> > > Re:
> > > [2cylinderhondas] seals
> > > how about
> > > the rear window gasket for the sedan?
> > > ----- Original Message
> > > -----
> > > From: "Kevin"
> > > To:
> > > 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Friday, April 9, 2010
> > > 9:15:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas]
> > > seals
> > > thanks for the input guys i talked to the extruder
> > > this morning and will send them a piece of the windshield seal and the > > > door and rear window seals. I have done well with the shocks and caliper > > > repair kits on the group ebay and craigs list so its time to give back and > > > move on to the next part thanks kevin P.S. there will be no need to > > > preorder I will bear the cost.
> > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
> > Learn more.

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:01 pm

Hi Bill, I am the newest member.
Reproducing parts is a tough job, big investment and very little profit if any.....as you know.
I own a 1970 Opel GT and a 1959 Tr3, and a member of both clubs.
I have a CNC machine shop and make aerospace and medical components, and a few parts for some of the Opel members.
This is just my way to help out the folks who have helped me over the years.
I would be out of business if I relied on low volume custom car parts!!
*The Honda is much harder to find parts for! Not many cars left and the cars have unusual parts that fit nothing else!
No large company would stock parts for our Honda's, no volume and no profit.
It will get worse.
We need members to come forward and work on producing replacement parts.
But, we need to work together, we can't duplicate a part to save $30. Then what, we split the orders in half? That can't be good for pricing.
I have seen this happen in other clubs, not good.
My 2 cent's.
Lyle