Master Cylinder

[T W S]

i kind of have an overkill approach. For the  rear wheel, id be heating it up with a torch-not hot enough to cut it, just hot enough for You to hit it  loose with maybe a rubber hammer. Steering column wise, it depends on if You want to reuse the key lock assembly. if You really want to get into it, You can disconnect the steering knuckle down where the shaft comes in thru the floor board and disconnect the wiring and remove the whole steering column. not a really big deal but a little time consuming.

--- On
Tue, 5/26/09, Mark Beckwith

wrote:
> From: Mark Beckwith
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] How to unlock N600 steering column?
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:22 AM
> So I can't get that right rear wheel turning.  I got the back of the car up on a dolly so I can roll it anyway.  Unfortunately, because the dang steering column is locked, I can only push it back and forth :)
> I have no idea if I have an ignition key for this car.  Any ideas on disabling the steering column lock without the key?
> Mark Beckwith
> Bartlesville OK

[Kevin Gailey]

So after research and matching up all MC's from Honda, all are too long.  1979-83 (6-1/8") 1/8" too long.  Tad from the board is using a 1986 Nissan Sentra Master, I may go this route, but not before I check out all the Datsun/Nissan/Toyota and the like first.  The march goes on.  I am looking at lighter cars that would be more in line with the rear wheel cylinders on weight and stopping force.
Kevin Gailey From:
paul tate To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:15:45 AM Subject:
RE: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Master Cylinder
Hi guys.
I went to an import auto parts store several weeks ago to purchase a master cylinder for a 73 civic hoping with a little re-plumbing I would be in business.  Providing they actually produced the correct part, the bolt pattern was the same as the 600's but it was about 1/2" to long and would interfere with the heat exchanger/ exhaust.

--- On
Tue, 5/26/09, billmyong@earthlink .net

wrote:
From: billmyong@earthlink .net
Subject: RE: [
anzhonda
600owners] Re: Master Cylinder
To: anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 12:09 AM
Kevin;
I wouldn't worry about the kits and such.  Purists will seek these items out to keep their car original.  Keeping the car on the road with a safe brake system is at the top of the list.  Honda seems to have used a larger Master Cylinder with the larger rear wheel cylinder.  The same rear wheel cylinder size was used on the 1973 and 1974 I believe on the civic.  So the master cylinder for these years should be about the same.  Here again, there is the age factor and who still has the master cylinders for these years of Civic?
Miles Chappell, any input on this?
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anzhonda600 owners@yahoogrou > ps.com > ] > On Behalf Of > Kevin Gailey > Sent:
> Sunday, May 24, 2009 11:09 AM
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Master Cylinder
> I understand what you are saying Bill and appreciate the advice.  One size does not fit all, but a proportioning valve and re-plumbing my  system (already planned on doing that) is a small price to pay.  I know this is a sticky subject for two reasons.
> 1.  People on this board make money off the rebuild kits and or completely overhaul the masters for 600 owners. For this reason I am hesitant to go further with this.  On the other hand, the rebuild kit for our masters is obviously a kit from another car.
> 2. I do believe some 600 owners have found a solution to the problem but are not saying what that elusive MC is for whatever reason.  I believing in keeping the integrity of our cars stock but have no problem in improving or making readily available better or equal brakes.
> 3. I am not in to stepping on any toes, I am new to this board but not project cars.  I know the ins and out of BMW 2002's > (changed masters on those cars for better stopping) but now they have become too expensive as project cars. This is an experiment, I am using an MC from a 1980 civic which is short. I only paid $20.00 on ebay with shipping for this MC, so I won't be out $ if it does not work.  I have not rebuilt my front Calipers and rears cost me 5.00 a side.  So we will see, i will keep you posted.  If this does not work, there are still options with Toyota MC's.  Damn, do I have too much time on my hands?  I can't get bleeder, nut, or ring or anything off my 600's MC, everything is frozen, so this led me to my search.
> Kevin Gailey
> From:
> "billmyong@earthlin
> k.net
> "
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent:
> Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:18:33 AM
> Subject:
> RE: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Master Cylinder
> riceburner006
> I too have looked at several master cylinders to replace the factory Honda 600 unit.  Besides bolting the unit up to the fire wall, making it fit through the existing hole and attaching the brake lines there is one other hurdle to overcome.  The stroke rod length from the peddle to the master cylinder bore end and then the length it has to push the rod into the master cylinder.  If it is not right then you won't get both front and rear systems to operate properly.  Then too, there is the proportioning valve that will have to be changed to meter the fluid going to the rear wheels.
>     To large of a bore on the master can cause your peddle to keep pushing more fluid to the rear wheels which could cause line or cylinder failure.  Like wise, if the master cylinder moves fluid to the front calipers first then the seals could be blown out up front too.  Finally, if one size fit all, there wouldn't be so many different sizes of master cylinder.
> We really need this to be safe, not just fixed.
> Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anzhonda600 owners@yahoogrou > > ps.com > > ] > > On Behalf Of > > riceburner006 > > Sent:
> > Saturday, May 23, 2009 5:47 PM
> > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject:
> > [anzhonda600owners] Re: Master Cylinder
> > ---
> > Interesting! I'm sure many people searched,but the main stumbling block is the length! The bolt up pattern could be altered,the bore size doesn't matter too much. I searched and everytime someone says they found one that works, they won't tell us the make,model or year! Full of BS!
> > In
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > , paul tate wrote:
> > > I'm in the same boat.  73 Civic mc is same bolt pattern but too long.  Late 90 ish Honda right length wrong bolt pattern.  I plan to hit the bone yard in the morning.  I'll keep you posted.
> > > --- On Fri, 5/22/09, kevin.gailey wrote:
> > > From: kevin.gailey
> > > Subject:
> > [anzhonda600owners] Master Cylinder
> > > To:
> > anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 10:20 PM
> > > I know this may be sacrilegious, but does any other master cylinders fit the Honda 600's? It looks to me as if the one on a Toyota Corolla 76-87 might fit. Has anyone done something similar?
> > > Kevin

[paul tate]

Hi Mark!
I live in Tulsa and may be in need of some of the parts you have.

--- On
Tue, 5/26/09, Mark Beckwith

wrote:
From: Mark Beckwith
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] New here
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:18 AM
Hi - I just joined this group.  I have an N600 sitting in the tall grass and am going to get started on an electric conversion.  I may have running gear parts available as I dismantle it.  Let me know your needs.  It also came with a spare motor.  That makes 2 I won't need.
I will post 2 separate questions in 2 subsequent emails.  Thanks in advance for your wisdom/knowledge pool.
Mark Beckwith
Bartlesville OK

[paul tate]

The brake shoes have temporarily became one with the drum.  I use ammonia and a small hammer very frequently on old cars to free rusted bolts and other items.  I know ammonia sounds a bit strange but it works better than anything I've seen and it's cheap.

--- On
Tue, 5/26/09, Mark
Beckwith

wrote:
> From: Mark Beckwith
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] How to unfreeze N600 drum brakes?
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:20 AM
> I got 3 of the 4 wheels turning.  The right rear I can't get to turn (rusted solid I suspect).  Any ideas on how to break that bad boy loose?  Can't seem to get a liquid wrench straw in where it will do any good.
> Mark Beckwith
> Bartlesville OK

[zinc2u]

Hi Mark,
    I've experienced this problem before.  What I have done is to remove the rubber plug in the brake cylinder which gives access to the brake adjuster and sprayed penetrating oils everywhere.  I have also sprayed it along the edge where the drum meets the rest of the wheel.  I let it sit for several days or longer.
     I also remove the center nut which holds the brake systems to the axle,  tap along the left and right side of the brake cylinder with a rubber mallet to set up some vibration which may allow the oil to seep in to more spots.  I then attached a tire and wheel back onto the drum and attach with the lug nuts.  I then try rocking the wheel back and forth and outward to see if I can free it up.  The tire gives me something to hold onto and gives me more torque.  I also try letting the tires back on the ground and try rocking the car back and forth.  The extra weight of the car places more torque on the brake drum.
     I noticed the comment about using ammonia.  I have never tried it but I have used citric acid to remove rust.  I have never used citric acid on the brake system but I have used it on tools.
You can buy citric acid or you can use orange juice, lime juice, lemon juice, etc.   It is a basic ingredient in fruits and is a mild acid.
good luck,
Dale

> I got 3 of the 4 wheels turning.  The right
> rear I can't get to turn (rusted solid I suspect).  Any ideas on how to > break that bad boy loose?  Can't seem to get a liquid wrench straw in > where it will do any good.
> Mark Beckwith
> Bartlesville
> OK

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[zinc2u]

Hi Kevin,
     Have you checked with Cardone  ( www.cardone.com )?  They claim to rebuild Honda 600 master cylinders and they may be desperate for business these days.   Ask them how many parts they would need to rebuild to make it worth their effort.
In June 2008,  I contacted them and they informed me they do rebuild the cylinders.  I sent them my worst M/C and they sent it back and told me they could not rebuild it because the piston was seized.  I tried to find out what parts they had and what they did to rebuild the M/C since I had some parts which only needed new rubber seals.  I never did get an honest answer from the guys.   They told me they were temporarily out of some of the parts (would not tell me what they had) and did not know when they would have replacement stock.   I sensed they were not interested in working on these brake parts.    I ended up buying the seals I needed from Miles.   I think I paid Miles $45 for the 2 rubber cup seals and Cardone was going to rebuild the entire M/C for $60 if they had the parts.   I think I will start a business and follow the Cardone business model ....I'll tell you I can rebuild your brake part for $20 plus $20 S&H on the part.  You send me your part, I'll send it back and tell you I can't repair it and keep the $20 S&H.
good luck,
Dale

> So after research and matching up all MC's from Honda, all are too > long.  1979-83 (6-1/8") 1/8" too long.  Tad from the board is using > a 1986 Nissan Sentra Master, I may go this route, but not before I check out > all the Datsun/Nissan/ Toyota and the like first.  The march goes > on.  I am looking at lighter cars that would be more in line with the > rear wheel cylinders on weight and stopping force.
> Kevin
> Gailey

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See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Mark Beckwith]

Thanks Dale.  I have been trying to figure out how to get penetrating oil in there.  I didn't think of the rubber plug.  that's a GREAT TIP.  Thanks!
Mark

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> goinhm@...
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:53 PM
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners] How to
> unfreeze N600 drum brakes?
> Hi Mark,
>     I've experienced this problem before.  What I
> have done is to remove the rubber plug in the brake cylinder which gives > access to the brake adjuster and sprayed penetrating oils everywhere.  I > have also sprayed it along the edge where the drum meets the rest of the > wheel.  I let it sit for several days or longer.
>      I also remove the center nut which holds the
> brake systems to the axle,  tap along the left and right side of the > brake cylinder with a rubber mallet to set up some vibration which may allow > the oil to seep in to more spots.  I then attached a tire and wheel back > onto the drum and attach with the lug nuts.  I then try rocking the wheel > back and forth and outward to see if I can free it up.  The tire gives me > something to hold onto and gives me more torque.  I also try letting the > tires back on the ground and try rocking the car back and forth.  The > extra weight of the car places more torque on the brake drum.
>      I noticed the comment about using ammonia.
> I have never tried it but I have used citric acid to remove rust.  I have > never used citric acid on the brake system but I have used it on tools.
> You can buy citric acid or you can use orange juice, lime juice, lemon juice, > etc.   It is a basic ingredient in fruits and is a mild acid.
> good luck,
> Dale
> > I got 3 of the 4 wheels turning.  The
> > right rear I can't get to turn (rusted solid I suspect).  Any ideas on > > how to break that bad boy loose?  Can't seem to get a liquid wrench > > straw in where it will do any good.
> > Mark Beckwith
> > Bartlesville
> > OK
> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.
> See
> yours in just 2 easy steps!

[tommyjayallen]

I haven't seen a 600 rear brake yet that didn't break loose with just some dilligent hammer work. You don't have to hit very hard, just keep working your way around the drum. The rust will come loose and you don't have to worry about messing up the shoes with penetrant.
Tad

--- On
Tue, 5/26/09, Mark Beckwith

wrote:
From: Mark Beckwith
Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] How to unfreeze N600 drum brakes?
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 2:13 PM
Thanks Dale.  I have been trying to figure out how to get penetrating oil in there.  I didn't think of the rubber plug.  that's a GREAT TIP.  Thanks!
Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> goinhm@...
> To:
> anzhonda600owners@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent:
> Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:53 PM
> Subject:
> Re: [anzhonda600owners] How to unfreeze N600 drum brakes?
> Hi Mark,
>     I've experienced this problem before.  What I have done is to remove the rubber plug in the brake cylinder which gives access to the brake adjuster and sprayed penetrating oils everywhere.  I have also sprayed it along the edge where the drum meets the rest of the wheel.  I let it sit for several days or longer.
>      I also remove the center nut which holds the brake systems to the axle,  tap along the left and right side of the brake cylinder with a rubber mallet to set up some vibration which may allow the oil to seep in to more spots.  I then attached a tire and wheel back onto the drum and attach with the lug nuts.  I then try rocking the wheel back and forth and outward to see if I can free it up.  The tire gives me something to hold onto and gives me more torque.  I also try letting the tires back on the ground and try rocking the car back and forth.  The extra weight of the car places more torque on the brake drum.
>      I noticed the comment about using ammonia.  I have never tried it but I have used citric acid to remove rust.  I have never used citric acid on the brake system but I have used it on tools.  You can buy citric acid or you can use orange juice, lime juice, lemon juice, etc.   It is a basic ingredient in fruits and is a mild acid.
> good luck,
> Dale
> > I got 3 of the 4 wheels turning.  The right rear I can't get to turn (rusted solid I suspect).  Any ideas on how to break that bad boy loose?  Can't seem to get a liquid wrench straw in where it will do any good.
> > Mark Beckwith
> > Bartlesville OK
> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.
> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[juan aguirre]

I was wondering if some one can help me
I'm trying to stop the e mail messages from
Anzhonda600owners website.I had to sell my
600 and now I would like to get off the site? Thanks Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2009, at 4:20 PM,
goinhm@...
wrote:
Hi Kevin,
�
���� Have you checked with Cardone� (
www.cardone
. com)?� They claim to rebuild
Honda 600 master cylinders and they may be desperate for business these days.�� Ask them how many parts they would need to rebuild to make it worth their effort.
�
In June 2008,� I contacted them and they informed me they do rebuild the cylinders.� I sent them my worst M/C and they sent it back and told me they could not rebuild it because the piston was seized.� I tried to find out what parts they had and what they did to rebuild the M/C since I had some parts which only needed new rubber seals.� I never did get an honest answer from the guys.�� They told me they were temporarily out of some of the parts (would not tell me what they had) and did not know when they would have replacement stock.�� I sensed they were not interested in working on these brake parts.��� I ended up buying the seals I needed from Miles.�� I think I paid Miles $45 for the 2 rubber cup seals and Cardone was going to rebuild the entire M/C for $60 if they had the parts.�� I think I will start a business and follow the Cardone business model ....I'll�tell you�I can�rebuild your brake part for $20 plus $20 S&H on�the part.� You send me your part,� I'll send it back and tell you I can't repair it and keep the $20 S&H.
�
good luck,
Dale
�
> So after research and matching up all MC's from Honda, all are too > long.� 1979-83 (6-1/8") 1/8" too long.� Tad from the board is using > a 1986 Nissan Sentra Master, I may go this route, but not before I check out > all the Datsun/Nissan/ Toyota and the like first.� The march goes > on.� I am looking at lighter cars that would be more in line with the > rear wheel cylinders on weight and stopping force.
> Kevin
> Gailey
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.
See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[John Ph. Graf]

Here is a post from back a few years (message numbers 5058 and 5061 -
combined):
RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: bad brake booster in 71 sedan?
It sounds like a great mod, did the push rod have to be replaced?
Bill