Hi Mike;
It sounds like you have performed the required maintenance to keep your
Honda 600 running. The engines I am talking about are patched together and
not rebuilt.
I have the cases of 19 engines in my garage rafters of engines that didn't
keep on running. I have 15 of their bad crankshafts, waiting for another
Honda 600 owner to make a rod kit for the Honda 600 crankshafts (FAT
chance).
A good number of them also had bad cylinders and pistons. The Honda 600's
were made to run about 45 thousand miles and many of them kept on running
until the cam chain jumped a tooth (normally between 60 and 70 K on the
clock).
Understand, when this happens the engine will normally just stop running,
but many chains jumped while the car was doing a bit over idle while
changing lanes on the local turn pike. A single tooth would have been nice
but since these little guys have valves that like to touch the pistons when
the cam is out of time they tend to do a bit more damage. But the wear is
not just with the cam chain. On the other end, the oil pump rod has a steel
inner race cast into the aluminum rod. Which we all know runs on an
aluminum eccentric hub (Steel running on aluminum, must have been really
late that night!). This performs well until it starts to wear. The hub
loses its diameter, the wider end of the oil pump rod galls and when the
wear gets to the point where the piston hits the bottom of the oil pump and
cracks the rod normally right where it has two indents to allow oil to move
into and out of the hub assembly. Oil, no longer makes it's way to the
upper end of the engine. And, because the engine is really hot the
distributor end of the cam stops turning, not because of the cam chain or
the valves that are now bent, but because there is no oil left. But this is
only the beginning.
I am going to close tonight and pick this back up tomorrow. Because this
has happened to so many of these engines just changing out the head doesn't
solve the problem.
Bill
Re: [2cylinderhondas] RE: [engines last about a year
Re: [2cylinderhondas] RE: [engines last about a year
Well Mike;
Save your tears for what happens next. Because much of this can be avoided if precautions are taken early. Just look at what is being reproduced now. Miles Chappell is making new Oil pumps, Mike O'Conner is making engine piston sets and I have Cam Chains, sleved oil pump hubs and Head gaskets. Prime components of the engine and all of these components wear.
But back to our story...
Where we left off is just about the time the engine is going to seize (stop due to melting metal) at the top where the cam goes into the distributor. But the pistons are a close second and if you don't get the clutch in quick enough there could be further damage. I pulled one engine where all the dampers in the drive sprockets pulverized. The Drive chains snapped and ripped a hole in the engine case.
All of this can be averted.
Tomorrow
Bill
Save your tears for what happens next. Because much of this can be avoided if precautions are taken early. Just look at what is being reproduced now. Miles Chappell is making new Oil pumps, Mike O'Conner is making engine piston sets and I have Cam Chains, sleved oil pump hubs and Head gaskets. Prime components of the engine and all of these components wear.
But back to our story...
Where we left off is just about the time the engine is going to seize (stop due to melting metal) at the top where the cam goes into the distributor. But the pistons are a close second and if you don't get the clutch in quick enough there could be further damage. I pulled one engine where all the dampers in the drive sprockets pulverized. The Drive chains snapped and ripped a hole in the engine case.
All of this can be averted.
Tomorrow
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of > Matthew Timion > Sent:
> Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:51
> AM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> RE:
> [2cylinderhondas] RE: [engines last about a year
> Bill,
> Reading your little "typical incident report"
> actually makes me want to cry. I'm not terrified of what will happen to > my little n600. I have no idea what the history is with my engine.
> I'm pretty certain it's not the car's original engine and that means I'm > uncertain as to the number of miles on this car. The chasis has about > 60k on it and now I'm afraid my engine will just die one day.
> Maybe
> that rebuild isn't a bad idea.
> Bill Colford
>
> wrote:
> > Hi
> > Mike;
> > It sounds like you have performed
> > the required maintenance to keep your
> > Honda 600 running. The
> > engines I am talking about are patched together and
> > not
> > rebuilt.
> > I have the cases of 19 engines in
> > my garage rafters of engines that didn't
> > keep on running. I have 15
> > of their bad crankshafts, waiting for another
> > Honda 600 owner to make a
> > rod kit for the Honda 600 crankshafts
> > (FAT
> > chance).
> > A good number of them
> > also had bad cylinders and pistons. The Honda 600's > > were made to > > run about 45 thousand miles and many of them kept on running > > until the > > cam chain jumped a tooth (normally between 60 and 70 K on > > the > > clock).
> > Understand, when this
> > happens the engine will normally just stop running,
> > but many chains
> > jumped while the car was doing a bit over idle while > > changing lanes on > > the local turn pike. A single tooth would have been nice > > but since > > these little guys have valves that like to touch the pistons when > > the cam > > is out of time they tend to do a bit more damage. But the wear > > is > > not just with the cam chain. On the other end, the oil pump rod > > has a steel > > inner race cast into the aluminum rod. Which we all > > know runs on an > > aluminum eccentric hub (Steel running on aluminum, must > > have been really > > late that night!). This performs well until it > > starts to wear. The hub > > loses its diameter, the wider end of the oil pump > > rod galls and when the > > wear gets to the point where the piston hits the > > bottom of the oil pump and > > cracks the rod normally right where it has two > > indents to allow oil to move > > into and out of the hub assembly. Oil, > > no longer makes it's way to the > > upper end of the engine. And, > > because the engine is really hot the > > distributor end of the cam stops > > turning, not because of the cam chain or > > the valves that are now bent, > > but because there is no oil left. But this is > > only the > > beginning.
> > I am going to close tonight
> > and pick this back up tomorrow. Because this
> > has happened to so
> > many of these engines just changing out the head doesn't > > solve the > > problem.
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com]On
> > Behalf Of michael morris
> > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 7:38 AM
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] RE:
> > [engines last about a year
> > hi
> > Bill:
> > Wow! What do I do now? I got my AN600 about 5
> > years ago and while i
> > can't drive it from November till April I do use it
> > most of the time then.
> > The car currently has over 100,000 miles on it and
> > other than a new
> > cylinderhead when I bought it(prior owner stripped out
> > the spark plug holes)
> > it seems original. The left cylinder tends to foul
> > that plug requiring me to
> > clean it a couple of times a season and it uses
> > a little oil but the darn
> > thing keeps running. An amazing bit of
> > machinery. mike
> > >From: "Bill Colford"
> >
> > >Reply-To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >To:
> > , > > >Subject:
> > [2cylinderhondas] RE: [anzhonda600owners] New 600 owner > > >Date: Sun, 25 > > Dec 2005 05:24:15 -0800
> > >Hi
> > Larry;
> > > I have to agree with you, that
> > when the Honda 600 was brand new it ran
> > >quiet, had everything running
> > at spec. I think 1969 was the last time any
> > >of
> > >the "little
> > Honda engineers stayed up all night. But the abundance of > > new > > >parts are just not there anymore. And, the only book that > > talks about > > >Castrol GTX 20w/50 oil is the Haynes manual and I have a > > letter from them > > >admitting (in there words) "it's shortcomings" dated > > 14 April 1988, where I > > >pointed out many inaccuracies the most > > critical of which was the head bolt > > >torque sequence. The GTX > > blend has been around for many years and although > > >advanced when the > > Haynes Publishing Group wrote about keeping your Honda on > > >the road, > > there are superior blends available > > today.
> > > Race cars modify their oil pans
> > to expand their capacity, and a 322 CI Jag
> > >V12 hold over 8 quarts, as
> > does the Cadillac Northstar V8 that is giving
> > >200k driving
> > ranges. But, 70's built Detroit iron ran 5 to 6 quarts > > in > > >similar displacements. These engineers made their computers > > work all day > > >and night.
> > What I am saying is adding a better filter, better oil while keeping it > > at > > >the correct temp. will keep your Honda 600 on the road longer than > > keeping > > >with the same old routine. Right now most Honda 600 > > engines are lasting > > >maybe a year when driven > > daily.
> > >Bill
> > >-----Original
> > Message-----
> > >From:
> > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > >[mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com]On
> > Behalf Of Larry
> > >Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 8:42 PM
> > >To:
> > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners]
> > New 600 onwer
> > >I don't want to ruffle any feathers,
> > but those of you that call the OE
> > >filter for the 600 "EXPENSIVE", I
> > can't believe how CHEAP you are... The
> > >original filters are $12 to
> > $15 at the dealer!!!!! AND, "Some little
> > >Japanese
> > engineer stayed up all night long", figuring out what the best > > >way to > > handle the oil in your car!!! The best thing you can do for > > your > > >600, is Castrol GTX 20w/50 oil and an original equipment > > filter!!! Quit > > >whining and go to the parts department at your > > local Honda dealer, or > > >call Tim Mings, or Mike Oconnor, or Miles > > Chappell and buy the RIGHT > > >filter for your > > cars!!!
> > >Yahoo! Groups
> > Links
> > >Yahoo!
> > Groups
> > Links
> > Yahoo!
> > Groups Links
> Yahoo! for Good -
> Make
> a difference this year.