Can the stator be replaced without dropping the engine?

[mgpstearns]

My car has had charging problems since I hit a large puddle a few months ago. I have checked everything and it looks as though the stator has quit working, there is maybe half a volt coming out at any one time. If I drive the car for a while on a warm day it will start charging until the car is turned off then it will stop working again.   I have checked and or replaced everything else in the charging system up to this time. My question is can the stator be replaced while the engine is in the car? I would like to not have to drop it if possible. Looking at it I guess my biggest question is if the belt pulley is pressed on or just keyed to the mounting post? Any and all help is appreciated, this car is my daily driver and I'm kinda tired of plugging it in at night.

[Bill]

The stator is a set of windings, if the windings are broken, or shorting out it's an easy test with an Ohm meter.  With the ignition off, undo the three wires from the front harness.  Check to see if all three wires from the stator are connected (there shoud be resistance indicated on the meter)  If all is well check to see if any of the wires is shorted to ground by placing on of the meter wires on the stator wire and another to the engine or body of the car.  If it checks out then it's not the stator.

[Scott Walters]

I haven't attempted this, but I'm pretty sure that you could get to the brushes
without much problem, if it's just a matter of replacing the alternator brushes.
If that is the fix, it would be a cheap, easy one. The brushes are part of
a small metal "window" that bolts on just to the right of the crank pulley.
The flywheel/rotor is pressed on. Removal procedure involves screwing in a
large bolt in place of where the fanbelt pully bolts on, and then gently
tapping it with a mallet.
I know you said you checked everything already, but there isn't much inside
of the alternator housing. I'd suspect connections outside of it more. From what
I've picked up on here, the wiring tends to be the weak link. In addition
to Bill's suggestion of testing the strator winding coils for resistance/short,
I suggest testing all of the related external wiring for resistance with a multimeter.
The service manual has details on alternator diagnostics in the troubleshooting
section.
Good luck!
Cheers,
-scott

On 0, "'Bill'
billmyong@...
[2cylinderhondas]" wrote:
> The stator is a set of windings, if the windings are broken, or shorting out
> it's an easy test with an Ohm meter. With the ignition off, undo the three
> wires from the front harness. Check to see if all three wires from the
> stator are connected (there shoud be resistance indicated on the meter) If
> all is well check to see if any of the wires is shorted to ground by placing
> on of the meter wires on the stator wire and another to the engine or body
> of the car. If it checks out then it's not the stator.
> _____
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:37 AM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Can the stator be replaced without dropping the
> engine?
> My car has had charging problems since I hit a large puddle a few months
> ago. I have checked everything and it looks as though the stator has quit
> working, there is maybe half a volt coming out at any one time. If I drive
> the car for a while on a warm day it will start charging until the car is
> turned off then it will stop working again. I have checked and or replaced
> everything else in the charging system up to this time. My question is can
> the stator be replaced while the engine is in the car? I would like to not
> have to drop it if possible. Looking at it I guess my biggest question is if
> the belt pulley is pressed on or just keyed to the mounting post? Any and
> all help is appreciated, this car is my daily driver and I'm kinda tired of
> plugging it in at night.

[dm600z]

Hi,
    To answer your question (which I have highlighted in the msg below); YES.   The entire charging system can be serviced with the engine in the car.  You will need a rotor removal tool to remove the flywheel since it is pressed on to the crank.  Miles was selling these tools.  Check with him at z600miles@...
  or check his store on eBay (I think it is called 600miles).  This tool is a big timesaver if you need to work on the engine.  Without this tool (or something similar), you risk damaging your engine.
    The details on the threaded portion of the rotor removal bolt:  24mm wide, 27mm long (the portion which is involved in pressing off the rotor), and the pitch is 1.5mm.
good luck,
Dale
In a message dated 6/15/2014 9:36:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com writes:

> My car has had charging problems since I hit a large puddle a few months > ago. I have checked everything and it looks as though the stator has quit > working, there is maybe half a volt coming out at any one time. If I drive the > car for a while on a warm day it will start charging until the car is turned > off then it will stop working again.   I have checked and or replaced > everything else in the charging system up to this time.
> My
> question is can the stator be replaced while the engine is in the car?
> I would like to not have to drop it if possible. Looking at it I guess my > biggest question is if the belt pulley is pressed on or just keyed to the > mounting post? Any and all help is appreciated, this car is my daily driver > and I'm kinda tired of plugging it in at night.

[PETER WATKINS]

Hi
It does not make much sense to me, if it works ok after it has warmed up it is not dead, could it be brushes or just a joint on a lead. I am not that familiar with the set up but most things that are dead stay dead, getting wet should not have killed it, the stator spends its life getting very hot then cold so a little water should not be a big problem.
Let us know the answer when you find the problem.
Peter

> ========================================
> Message Received: Jun 15 2014, 06:55 PM
> From: "goinhm@... [2cylinderhondas]" > To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com > Cc:
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Can the stator be replaced without dropping the engine?
> Hi,
>     To answer your question (which I have highlighted in the msg below); YES.   The entire charging system can be serviced with the engine in the car.  You will need a rotor removal tool to remove the flywheel since it is pressed on to the crank.  Miles was selling these tools.  Check with him at > z600miles@...
>   or check his store on eBay (I think it is called 600miles).  This tool is a big timesaver if you need to work on the engine.  Without this tool (or something similar), you risk damaging your engine.
>     The details on the threaded portion of the rotor removal bolt:  24mm wide, 27mm long (the portion which is involved in pressing off the rotor), and the pitch is 1.5mm.
> good luck,
> Dale
> In a message dated 6/15/2014 9:36:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com writes:
> > My car has had charging problems since I hit a large puddle a few months ago. I have checked everything and it looks as though the stator has quit working, there is maybe half a volt coming out at any one time. If I drive the car for a while on a warm day it will start charging until the car is turned off then it will stop working again.   I have checked and or replaced everything else in the charging system up to this time.
> > My question is can the stator be replaced while the engine is in the car?
> > I would like to not have to drop it if possible. Looking at it I guess my biggest question is if the belt pulley is pressed on or just keyed to the mounting post? Any and all help is appreciated, this car is my daily driver and I'm kinda tired of plugging it in at night.

[Bryan O_Shaughnessy]

I heard of this on a motorcycle thread; the magneto had been de-magnetized, but I don't remember what the outcome was.  Anybody know about re-magnetizing the stator?
   I also know that a hard blow will de-magnetize a charging system.  Anyone have some esoteric electrical knowledge to share?  ---Bryan O
On Sunday, June 15, 2014 2:55 PM, "Peter Watkins honda@... [2cylinderhondas]" wrote:

> Hi
> It does not make much sense to me, if it works ok after it has warmed up it is not dead, could it be brushes or just a joint on a lead. I am not that familiar with the set up but most things that are dead stay dead, getting wet should not have killed it, the stator spends its life getting very hot then cold so a little water should not be a big problem.
> Let us know the answer when you find the problem.
> Peter
> > ========================================
> > Message Received: Jun 15 2014, 06:55 PM
> > From: "goinhm@... [2cylinderhondas]" > > To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com > > Cc:
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Can the stator be replaced without dropping the engine?
> > Hi,
> >     To answer your question (which I have highlighted in the msg below); YES.   The entire charging system can be serviced with the engine in the car.  You will need a rotor removal tool to remove the flywheel since it is pressed on to the crank.  Miles was selling these tools.  Check with him at > > z600miles@...
> >   or check his store on eBay (I think it is called 600miles).  This tool is a > > big timesaver if you need to work on the engine.  Without this tool (or something similar), you risk damaging your engine.
> >     The details on the threaded portion of the rotor removal bolt:  24mm wide, 27mm long (the portion which is involved in pressing off the rotor), and the pitch is 1.5mm.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > In a message dated 6/15/2014 9:36:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com writes:
> > > My car has had charging problems since I hit a large puddle a few months ago. I have checked everything and it looks as though the stator has quit working, there is maybe half a volt coming out at any one > > > time. If I drive the car for a while on a warm day it will start charging until the car is turned off then it will stop working again.   I have checked and or replaced everything else in the charging system up to this time.
> > > My question is can the stator be replaced while the engine is in the car?
> > > I would like to not have to drop it if possible. Looking at it I guess my biggest question is if the belt pulley is pressed on or just keyed to the mounting post? Any and all help is appreciated, this car is my daily driver and I'm kinda tired of plugging it in at night.

[mgpstearns]

Ok, so with my ohm meter I am getting resistance across all 3 wires. When put to ground on the motor ground I get no reading from the stator. These are the same results I am getting with with the replacement stator. So im not sure what to do next. I have replaced the brushes already and have also replaced the rectifier due to the old one being in such bad shape. If the results show that the stator is good im not sure what to check anymore.

[Scott Walters]

p.37 of the service manual has troubleshooting for the charging system. (I'm sure you're aware, but if not, there's a copy of it online as a pdf.)
The "discharge warning relay" may be faulty. It may be warning you that it isn't charging when it in fact is. The service manual has you check that as the first step.
Then it has you test each wire for voltage while running at 1800 rpm.
Then it wants you to test the "rotor slip rings" (I don't know what that is. Look in the parts manual?) and then finally the white stator leads.
Image attached. That one page of stuff has a lot more detail than I typed up here.
If none of those tests come up faulty, then I really have no guess.
Good luck!
-scott

On 0, "
mgpstearns@...
[2cylinderhondas]" wrote:
> Ok, so with my ohm meter I am getting resistance across all 3 wires. When put to ground on the motor ground I get no reading from the stator. These are the same results I am getting with with the replacement stator. So im not sure what to do next. I have replaced the brushes already and have also replaced the rectifier due to the old one being in such bad shape. If the results show that the stator is good im not sure what to check anymore.

[Scott Walters]

Oops, one more try on attaching that image...
-scott

On 0, "
mgpstearns@...
[2cylinderhondas]" wrote:
> Ok, so with my ohm meter I am getting resistance across all 3 wires. When put to ground on the motor ground I get no reading from the stator. These are the same results I am getting with with the replacement stator. So im not sure what to do next. I have replaced the brushes already and have also replaced the rectifier due to the old one being in such bad shape. If the results show that the stator is good im not sure what to check anymore.

[Bill]

That’s a good sign, go to the brush wires and see if they are also working.  You can remove the brush plate (two Philips head screws) look to see that the brushes are the same length and that they are long enough.  Also check the surface the brushes are riding on.  Check here to see if the ring surfaces are not grounding out and rotate the fly wheel to see if the ring surface is smooth and not rough or stained.  Look at pages 17-24 and 17-25 of the Sedan Shop manual for more information on checking this area.
Look on Page 17-28 of the same manual to check the rectifier to make sure it too is working properly.
Bill