Paging experienced engine rebuilders...

[MarkN]

do ya'll put any goo on your cylinder base gaskets? I didn't forget
about the two o-rings, but I feel like some sort of gasket sealant
wouldn't hurt... Your opinions?
Thanks, Miles E.

[tommyjayallen]

With all the thermal expansion & contraction that goes on in these engines, you're almost guaranteed a leak without it. Make sure you retorque the head at regular intervals.     Good Luck,   Tad.
wanna600 wrote:

> do ya'll put any goo on your cylinder base gaskets? I didn't forget > about the two o-rings, but I feel like some sort of gasket sealant > wouldn't hurt... Your opinions?
> Thanks, Miles E.
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life!
New PhotoMail
makes sharing a breeze.

[dealadayray]

Hi Miles;
What type of gasket material are you using? Materials using a nitrile
base (rubber) do not fair will with sealents made of silicone. Hi grade
paper and Asbestos materials can have sealents used with them without
adverse effects.
Bill

> [Original Message]
> From: wanna600 To: Date: 3/7/2006 3:48:25 PM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Paging experienced engine rebuilders...
> do ya'll put any goo on your cylinder base gaskets? I didn't forget
> about the two o-rings, but I feel like some sort of gasket sealant
> wouldn't hurt... Your opinions?
> Thanks, Miles E.

[dealadayray]

Retorqueing of the head stud bolts - Note, you can strip the 6mm threads out very easy and pull the studs out of the block.   So, 1 always use a torque wrench, never exceed 110 inch pounds on the 6mm bolts or 38 Foot Pounds on the stud nuts.   I always retorque the head after it is heated up well, I say 500 miles because most people will not get the engine hot enough because they are just making short trips.  These engines are cold blooded enough to keep from getting really hot for a hour or so of driving.  But, if you did let it get hot by just running in your garage then you could retorque it the same day.   So, you went to torque your engine and some of the bolts stripped out, then you will have to disassemble, repair the threads and start over.  I always use lock tight and all the bolts are new or cad plated.  This helps cut down the electrolysis whch can cause excessive corrosion to your engine.   But, a bolt not torqued to the specified numbers (even with lock tight) will not hold.
Bill

> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Tad Clark
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> 3/8/2006 8:58:00 AM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] Paging experienced engine rebuilders...
> With all the thermal expansion & contraction that goes on in these engines, you're almost guaranteed a leak without it. Make sure you retorque the head at regular intervals.     Good Luck,   Tad.
> wanna600
> wrote:
> > do ya'll put any goo on your cylinder base gaskets? I didn't forget > > about the two o-rings, but I feel like some sort of gasket sealant > > wouldn't hurt... Your opinions?
> > Thanks, Miles E.
> Yahoo! Mail
> Bring photos to life!
> New PhotoMail
> makes sharing a breeze.

[dealadayray]

Hi Tad

> Retorqueing of the head stud bolts - Note, you can strip the 6mm threads out very easy and pull the studs out of the block.   So, 1 always use a torque wrench, never exceed 110 inch pounds on the 6mm bolts or 38 Foot Pounds on the stud nuts.   I always re torque the head after it is heated up well, I say 500 miles because most people will not get the engine hot enough because they are just making short trips.  These engines are cold blooded enough to keep from getting really hot for a hour or so of driving.  But, if you did let it get hot by just running in your garage then you could re torque it the same day.   So, you went to torque your engine and some of the bolts stripped out, then you will have to disassemble, repair the threads and start over.  I always use lock tight and all the bolts are new or cad plated.  This helps cut down the electrolysis which can cause excessive corrosion to your engine.   But, a bolt not torqued to the specified numbers (even with lock tight) will not hold.
> Bill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > Tad Clark
> > To:
> > 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent:
> > 3/8/2006 8:58:00 AM
> > Subject:
> > Re: [2cylinderhondas] Paging experienced engine rebuilders...
> > With all the thermal expansion & contraction that goes on in these engines, you're almost guaranteed a leak without it. Make sure you re torque the head at regular intervals.     Good Luck,   Tad.
> > wanna600
> > wrote:
> > > do ya'll put any goo on your cylinder base gaskets? I didn't forget > > > about the two o-rings, but I feel like some sort of gasket sealant > > > wouldn't hurt... Your opinions?
> > > Thanks, Miles E.
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Bring photos to life!
> > New PhotoMail
> > makes sharing a breeze.

[Steve]

I try to use original Honda gaskets when I can. Otherwise I cut them
out of Klinger-Sil high temp carbon fibre based material. I know we
discussed this before, the differences between the green & black
materials. I have used the black material in several engines with no
problems.
I tried to reply back to Miles Elledge about his questions *off
group*, but his mailbox was full.
When I build an engine here's the adhesives I use: on the cylinder
base, head gasket and cam box base gasket I like Honda Bond 4 Non
Drying or Three Bond #4 Non Drying which means when the engine gets
hot, it fuses the whole assembly together and won't leak for years.
On the 2 cam end bearing gaskets, the primary cover, and reverse
cover I like Permatex Ultra Black Silicone. I like it on those
covers as you can remove those items for service and can still reuse
the gaskets if they are not damaged. I use nothing on the crank end
bearing gasket as there are small oil orifices that could be plugged.
Miles Chappell

[Steve]

The thing I have noticed regarding retorquing is 2 things. The first
thing is you have to remove your rockers & shafts to get to all 8
head bolts. Retork only 4 and it's only half the job. The second
thing is, since the studs are thinner in the middle say 8mm and are
10mm at each end, they tend to twist when I first tork on them. This
causes a fierce screech and makes me think I am going to snap it or
pull the stud out of the case.
The other thing I have noticed is that to acheive the 38 foot pounds
of re-torque, you must exceed that amount before the nut will turn.
If the studs were 10mm all the way up, I might retorque engines, but
most times I find it unnecessary.
When I build an engine I also add 2 washers which are not normally
used. I have had occasions where the stud will pop through the acorn
nuts on the back 2 studs. Here I add 1 each 10mm flat washers. Also
this relieves the drag of the nut directly onto the aluminum, as the
other studs have a plain nut and washer.
Miles

[dealadayray]

Miles;
Which studs are you talking about? The two outer front are longer, but
the same diameter, the threads are the same and you torque them to the same
pounds feet as the others. Screech or not they all must be the same for
the size of stud or bolt they are. Using a torque wrench is the best way
to keep from stripping threads, pulling the studs from the lower case and
warping the head. Your manuals have the specifications.
As for gasket material, asbestos based materials retain the best universal
application. Which Klinger Sil (number) has the Carbon Base fiber? All
Black or Green materials have a Nitrile Binder which is attacked by
silicone based sealers. Nitrile is the sealent, nothing else is needed.
Bill

> [Original Message]
> From: Miles Chappell To: Date: 3/11/2006 11:14:35 AM
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Head Tork
> The thing I have noticed regarding retorquing is 2 things. The first
> thing is you have to remove your rockers & shafts to get to all 8
> head bolts. Retork only 4 and it's only half the job. The second
> thing is, since the studs are thinner in the middle say 8mm and are
> 10mm at each end, they tend to twist when I first tork on them. This
> causes a fierce screech and makes me think I am going to snap it or
> pull the stud out of the case.
> The other thing I have noticed is that to acheive the 38 foot pounds
> of re-torque, you must exceed that amount before the nut will turn.
> If the studs were 10mm all the way up, I might retorque engines, but
> most times I find it unnecessary.
> When I build an engine I also add 2 washers which are not normally
> used. I have had occasions where the stud will pop through the acorn
> nuts on the back 2 studs. Here I add 1 each 10mm flat washers. Also
> this relieves the drag of the nut directly onto the aluminum, as the
> other studs have a plain nut and washer.
> Miles
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "William Colford"
> wrote:
> > Retorqueing of the head stud bolts - Note, you can strip the 6mm
> threads out very easy and pull the studs out of the block. So, I
> always use a torque wrench, never exceed 110 inch pounds on the 6mm
> bolts or 38 Foot Pounds on the stud nuts. I always retorque the
> head after it is heated up well, I say 500 miles because most people
> will not get the engine hot enough because they are just making
> short trips. These engines are cold blooded enough to keep from
> getting really hot for a hour or so of driving. But, if you did let
> it get hot by just running in your garage then you could retorque it
> the same day. So, you went to torque your engine and some of the
> bolts stripped out, then you will have to disassemble, repair the
> threads and start over. I always use lock tight and all the bolts
> are new or cad plated. This helps cut down the electrolysis whch
> can cause excessive corrosion to your engine. But, a bolt not
> torqued to the specified numbers (even with lock tight) will not
> hold.
> > Bill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tad Clark
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: 3/8/2006 8:58:00 AM
> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Paging experienced engine
> rebuilders...
> > With all the thermal expansion & contraction that goes on in these
> engines, you're almost guaranteed a leak without it. Make sure you
> retorque the head at regular intervals. Good Luck, Tad.
> > wanna600 wrote:
> > do ya'll put any goo on your cylinder base gaskets? I didn't forget
> > about the two o-rings, but I feel like some sort of gasket sealant
> > wouldn't hurt... Your opinions?
> > Thanks, Miles E.
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.