Well, 2 years of assembly since I got my 1970 Honda 600 sedan back.
I sold it back in 1993 to my friend Andy who lives in Las Vegas.
Soon after he bought it he decided to repaint it so he completely
dismantled the body down to the bare shell. Nothing left in it not
even the wire harness.
He realized then that he knew nothing about body work and there it
sat beside his dad's house until 2 years ago when I bought it back.
Andy rebuilt the engine for what reason I do not know as it was just
rebuilt when I sold it to him. He installed a very hot cam which I
had to remove as the valves would not adjust. He painted the whole
engine grey.
When I got the car back I painted the engine compartment burgandy
like the original color and began assembly. I rebuilt all the brakes
and had alot of chrome redone, put the best windshield in I had,
best glass, new front & back seals, new tires on coupe rims, best
seats, seat belts etc. The car would be nice with paint and new
rubber.
Well, maiden voyage was this evening. The engine rattles like the
pistons are way too small. I am so depressed, I wanted this to be my
daily driver again like it was 15 years ago. I just don't have time
to do the top end of the engine. Maybe it's loud too because there
is no headliner and no door seals, makes it more like a drum.
Will sell as soon as I can figure out a fair price. Probably not in
eBay though and will not part out. Please email me *off list* if you
are interested. :(
Miles
Miles Chappell
Felton Ca 95018
Car Runs, I'm Bummed
Re: Car Runs, I'm Bummed, follow up
OK, so now I am intrigued by that rap noise. When I crank on the
throttle I can hear a quick high pitched knock, kind of like when
the chains whip in the primary drive and you can hear a snap coming
from the clutch area.
Andy says he put innew 1.00mm oversize pistons with a new rebore,
but I gotta tear into it to find out!
Miles
throttle I can hear a quick high pitched knock, kind of like when
the chains whip in the primary drive and you can hear a snap coming
from the clutch area.
Andy says he put innew 1.00mm oversize pistons with a new rebore,
but I gotta tear into it to find out!
Miles
Re: Car Runs, I'm Bummed, follow up
Hi Miles,
Sorry to hear about this problem. Does the knock only happen when the
throttle is first opened? A leakdown test would confirm that the pistons
are the culprits, right?
Jon
Sorry to hear about this problem. Does the knock only happen when the
throttle is first opened? A leakdown test would confirm that the pistons
are the culprits, right?
Jon
Re: Car Runs, I'm Bummed, follow up II
I picked up another engine for free tonight. It's one *I* built some
years ago and the guy didn't want it anymore. Will swap that one in
on Saturday until I can go through the other engine.
The knock in the engine happens at first opening of throttle and at
45mph aceleration. No noise at deceleration or normal driving, only
under load.
Miles
years ago and the guy didn't want it anymore. Will swap that one in
on Saturday until I can go through the other engine.
The knock in the engine happens at first opening of throttle and at
45mph aceleration. No noise at deceleration or normal driving, only
under load.
Miles
Re: Car Runs, I'm Bummed, follow up II
Miles,
Please let us know what you find when you open up that knocking engine. The "no knock under load" thing sounds a whole lot like my coupe engine's problem, just before it ---stopped--- on the side of the road for the last time. It is now in my shed, waiting for me to get the nerve up.
Here is an old webpage I would just as soon forget about.
http://www.honda600coupe.com/coupe_engine_sound.html
Steve
Please let us know what you find when you open up that knocking engine. The "no knock under load" thing sounds a whole lot like my coupe engine's problem, just before it ---stopped--- on the side of the road for the last time. It is now in my shed, waiting for me to get the nerve up.
Here is an old webpage I would just as soon forget about.
http://www.honda600coupe.com/coupe_engine_sound.html
Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Miles Chappell
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Friday, January 20, 2006 2:53
> AM
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Car Runs,
> I'm Bummed, follow up II
> I picked up another engine for free tonight. It's one *I* built > some > years ago and the guy didn't want it anymore. Will swap that one in
> on Saturday until I can go through the other engine.
> The knock in
> the engine happens at first opening of throttle and at
> 45mph aceleration.
> No noise at deceleration or normal driving, only
> under
> load.
> Miles
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "Jonathan Mistchenko and
> Sarah Reeves" rokhound@s
> ...> wrote:
> > Hi
> Miles,
> > Sorry to hear about this problem. Does the knock
> only happen when
> the
> > throttle is first opened? A leakdown
> test would confirm that the
> pistons
> > are the culprits,
> right?
> > Jon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Miles Chappell" 600miles@e
> ...>
> > To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:56 PM
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re:
> Car Runs, I'm Bummed, follow up
> > > OK, so now I am
> intrigued by that rap noise. When I crank on the
> > > throttle I can
> hear a quick high pitched knock, kind of like when
> > > the chains
> whip in the primary drive and you can hear a snap
> coming
> > > from
> the clutch area.
> > > Andy says he put innew 1.00mm
> oversize pistons with a new rebore,
> > > but I gotta tear into it to
> find out!
> > > Miles
> > > -- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "Miles Chappell"
> > > 600miles@e
> ...> wrote:
> > > > Well, 2 years of assembly since I got my 1970 Honda 600 > sedan > > > back.
> > > > I sold it back in 1993 to my friend
> Andy who lives in Las
> Vegas.
> > > > Soon after he bought it he
> decided to repaint it so he
> completely
> > > > dismantled the
> body down to the bare shell. Nothing left in it
> not
> > > > even
> the wire harness.
> > > > He realized then that he
> knew nothing about body work and
> there it
> > > > sat beside his
> dad's house until 2 years ago when I bought it
> > > back.
> > Andy rebuilt the engine for what reason I do not know as it was
> > just
> > > > rebuilt when I sold it to him. He installed a very
> hot cam
> which I
> > > > had to remove as the valves would not
> adjust. He painted the
> whole
> > > > engine grey.
> > > > When I got the car back I painted the engine
> compartment
> burgandy
> > > > like the original color and began
> assembly. I rebuilt all the
> > > brakes
> > > > and had alot
> of chrome redone, put the best windshield in I
> had,
> > > > best
> glass, new front & back seals, new tires on coupe rims,
> best
> > > seats, seat belts etc. The car would be nice with paint and > new > > > > rubber.
> > > > Well, maiden
> voyage was this evening. The engine rattles like
> the
> pistons are way too small. I am so depressed, I wanted this to > be
> > my
> > > > daily driver again like it was 15 years ago. I just
> don't have
> > > time
> > > > to do the top end of the
> engine. Maybe it's loud too because
> there
> > > > is no
> headliner and no door seals, makes it more like a drum.
> > > > Will sell as soon as I can figure out a fair price.
> Probably
> not
> > > in
> > > > eBay though and will not
> part out. Please email me *off list*
> if
> > > you
> are interested. :(
> > > > Miles
> > > > Miles Chappell
> > > > Felton Ca
> 95018
> > > Yahoo! Groups
> Links
> Yahoo! Groups
> Links
> To
Re: Car Runs, I'm Bummed, follow up
Stories from the bone yard:
For what it's worth, I replaced a crank shaft that passed all the (Shade
Tree) tests that are thought to give a good indication of the rods on the
crank shaft. It turned out that the Left (drivers side) center bearing was
bad and made the same sound as the rod.
Then there was an engine that I pulled the crank shaft on and it was missing
the bearing cage and rollers to the outer bearing also on the left side,
however it sounded more like the wrist pin than a rod knock. And the engine
ran like that for 6 years. I knew the owner that put the engine together.
And, because I pulled the crankshaft, I checked the end for runout to see if
it was bad (which there was none) put in a new bearing cage and rollers and
the engine is running today with no sound coming from that area.
So, you do have to check them out, and maybe Miles or Mike have a few tests
I haven't used. But here are a few of them:
- With the crank shaft out, use carb cleaner and clean all the oil out of
the bearings you can't remove. Check for metal coming out, aluminum will
cause just as much damage as steel. If you find metal, the crankshaft is
most likely bad. If none go to the next step.
- set the crankshaft up between two end blocks under the center bearings
and check out the end play with a dial gauge.
- All rods will move from side to side so this is not an indication of a
problem.
- Use a squeeze bottle with a pointed end, (I find the plastic bottle my
wife uses for her hair die works well - but she didn't believe me when I
said I can rinse it out and she can use it again.) Anyway, it works really
well to get oil into the bearings of the crankshaft. Then with the center
bearings and rod bearings full of oil, try moving them up and down - the
indication here is if they move. If they move up and down then they are
bad. If not go to the next test.
- Lay out some news paper to catch the oil and make sure the bearings are
full of oil and using a "SMALL" hammer give the back side (opposite of the
long end of the rod) a good rap while holding the long end and listen/feel
if the bearing moves or there is a metal sticking metal sound (the rod is
hitting the bearing that is loose which is hitting the crankshaft), which is
bad. If it sounds like one "thud" with no movement, the sound is like
hitting one part vice several, then the rod bearings are not loose and the
rod will not knock.
However, there could still be foreign matter in the bearing which will
cause a roller to lock up, wear and cause a problem after only a few miles.
This is why many crankshafts are just changed out.
Bill
For what it's worth, I replaced a crank shaft that passed all the (Shade
Tree) tests that are thought to give a good indication of the rods on the
crank shaft. It turned out that the Left (drivers side) center bearing was
bad and made the same sound as the rod.
Then there was an engine that I pulled the crank shaft on and it was missing
the bearing cage and rollers to the outer bearing also on the left side,
however it sounded more like the wrist pin than a rod knock. And the engine
ran like that for 6 years. I knew the owner that put the engine together.
And, because I pulled the crankshaft, I checked the end for runout to see if
it was bad (which there was none) put in a new bearing cage and rollers and
the engine is running today with no sound coming from that area.
So, you do have to check them out, and maybe Miles or Mike have a few tests
I haven't used. But here are a few of them:
- With the crank shaft out, use carb cleaner and clean all the oil out of
the bearings you can't remove. Check for metal coming out, aluminum will
cause just as much damage as steel. If you find metal, the crankshaft is
most likely bad. If none go to the next step.
- set the crankshaft up between two end blocks under the center bearings
and check out the end play with a dial gauge.
- All rods will move from side to side so this is not an indication of a
problem.
- Use a squeeze bottle with a pointed end, (I find the plastic bottle my
wife uses for her hair die works well - but she didn't believe me when I
said I can rinse it out and she can use it again.) Anyway, it works really
well to get oil into the bearings of the crankshaft. Then with the center
bearings and rod bearings full of oil, try moving them up and down - the
indication here is if they move. If they move up and down then they are
bad. If not go to the next test.
- Lay out some news paper to catch the oil and make sure the bearings are
full of oil and using a "SMALL" hammer give the back side (opposite of the
long end of the rod) a good rap while holding the long end and listen/feel
if the bearing moves or there is a metal sticking metal sound (the rod is
hitting the bearing that is loose which is hitting the crankshaft), which is
bad. If it sounds like one "thud" with no movement, the sound is like
hitting one part vice several, then the rod bearings are not loose and the
rod will not knock.
However, there could still be foreign matter in the bearing which will
cause a roller to lock up, wear and cause a problem after only a few miles.
This is why many crankshafts are just changed out.
Bill