Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter

[richmccolman]

Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter element and a custom-made spacer I made.
Richard

[richmccolman]

Since I posted my filter adaptation pics, a couple of folks have asked me whether there's any performance decrease due to the smaller filter profile. The short answer is no.
It's important to bear in mind that the new filter element I adapted to the z600 is one that was originally designed for a Honda XR650L motorcycle, which has greater engine displacement than our Honda 600 cars have in the stock configuration.
So how do they get away using a smaller filter profile?
Although I haven't measured the folds in the filter material, my impression is that the folds are deeper in the adapted motorcycle filter than in the stock Honda 600 car filter element. (It's the total surface area of the filter material that would be important, as opposed to the external dimensions of the filter element.) So it's quite possible that, despite the smaller overall size, the XR650L filter has as much, or more, actual filter material than the original Honda 600 car filter has. As I said, I haven't dissected the two filters and performed comparison measurements of the filter material fold depth, but my overall impression is that the fold depths in the motorcycle (K&N) filter are a good bit deeper than the original Honda 600 car filter.
Richard

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> Richard

[J Graf]

Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness as your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design that has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - John Graf Paragrafs.com

[richmccolman]

Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me to tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that should only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8 inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the K&N filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original Honda 600 filter.
Richard

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, J Graf wrote:
> Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness as your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design that has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> John Graf
> Paragrafs.com
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > Richard

[Chas]

While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it would just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to ensure that they did not tip or twist.
Chas

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me to tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that should only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8 inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the K&N filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original Honda 600 filter.
> Richard
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, J Graf wrote:
> > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness as your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design that has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > John Graf
> > Paragrafs.com
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "richmccolman" wrote:
> > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > Richard

[Bill]

Chas;
    Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer.  I was amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00.  Which seems a bit hard to swallow.  I would think there is another filter available for less.  Another suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and wrap it with  foam rubber like used in lawn mowers.  It is a whole bunch cheaper and will work like the original.  I'll post a picture later.
Bill

[Charles Gould]

Hi Bill, I do realize that he has the original clip behind his fabricated spacer, but the part that he fabricated is a pretty significant undertaking, and in my opinion, more complex both in its construction, and in its appearance, than is necessary. I appreciate the work involved, and he did a great job. It just seems that one or two wide spring clips, made several inches deep, would retain this or an alternate filter in place perfectly adequately, and would not be difficult to fabricate.
Chas

On Jun 5, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Bill wrote:
> Chas;
>     Richard does have the original
> spring clip on behind the spacer.  I was amazed at the cost of the filter, > $70.00.  Which seems a bit hard to swallow.  I would think there is > another filter available for less.  Another suggestion is to remove the > paper from the original Honda air filter and wrap it with  foam rubber like > used in lawn mowers.  It is a whole bunch cheaper and will work like the > original.  I'll post a picture later.
> Bill
> From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> Chas
> Sent:
> Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard
> - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it would > just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much like > the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter in the > same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the depth of the > clip, you could make them out of much wider material to ensure that they did not > tip or twist.
> Chas
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "richmccolman" wrote:
> > Hi John -- Yes, I
> imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd personally not be inclined > to use it long-term, given that wood, being a somewhat porous material, can > absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure how big of an issue this would be, > but it's something to consider. Perhaps something like oak would be less prone > to that, particularly if you sealed the wood after cutting it to the correct > dimensions.
> > One reason why I went with the design that I did
> was that it allowed me to tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the > other hand, that should only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic > captions, 1-3/8 inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that > thickness is appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes > with the K&N filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of > the original Honda 600 filter.
> > Richard
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> J Graf wrote:
> > > Richard, clever idea.
> Would any block of material the same thickness as your spacer work, or is there > an issue of air flow through your design that has benefit? I'm thinking of > simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - -
> > > John Graf
> Paragrafs.com
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> "richmccolman" wrote:
> > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album "richmccolman".
> One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air filter/cleaner adaptation > I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter element and a custom-made > spacer I made.
> > > > > Richard

[dealadayray]

Hi  Chas;
I agree fully.  And you are right, he did a great job, one well worth the note.  I don’t  know if using a larger spring would keep the needed pressure on the filter to keep it in place.  These darn things shake themselves to death and a large spring may not stay in place.   But everything is worth a try.
Bill

[richmccolman]

Bear in mind that the $70 price for the K&N filter that Bill mentions is a list price. Amazon has them for $42.99 each. The other point I'd like to make is that the K&N is a lifetime filter -- you clean it and then re-oil it over and over again. You should never need to buy another. And K&N filters come highly regarded, as I understand it, for filtering capability along with providing maximum air flow. You will need oil and cleaning solution too, but that stuff will last and last and last.
How much do the original NOS air filters for the 600 cars cost -- when you can get them? One seller has them listed for $55 each. I'm sure that that's a fair price, given the scarcity of them, but if you use that as a point of comparison, $42.99 is quite good for lifetime filter, and $70 (only $15 additional compared with the K&N list price) isn't bad, I think. If you figure that a rebuilt engine is going to run you hundreds to thousands of $$$, depending upon the level of work and replacement needed and depending upon whether you hire someone to do it or do it yourself, the protection that a really good filter provides is darn well worth it, IMHO.
As far as the level of difficulty in fabricating the spacer, it actually didn't take me but an hour and an half. Granted, I have a metal-cutting band saw and a drill press, but you could do essentially the same work using a jig saw with a metal-cutting blade and a handheld power drill with not much greater investment of time.
In the end, I'm not pressing anyone to do the same thing that I did. I merely put the idea out there for anyone who might be interested. Sooner or later, folks' stock filter could deteriorate and need replacement (my stock filter had holes in the filter material), and the supply of NOS filters will eventually become depleted. I suspect that folks will need some options. This happens to be one.
Richard

--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "Bill" wrote:
> Chas;
> Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
> amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
> swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another
> suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and
> wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch
> cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> Bill
> _____
> From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of Chas
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it would
> just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter
> in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
> depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to ensure
> that they did not tip or twist.
> Chas
> --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "richmccolman"
> wrote:
> > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me to
> tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that should
> only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8
> inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
> appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the K&N
> filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original
> Honda 600 filter.
> > Richard
> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , J Graf wrote:
> > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness as
> your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design that
> has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > John Graf
> > > Paragrafs.com
> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "richmccolman"
> wrote:
> > > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
> "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
> filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter
> element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > Richard

[Charles Gould]

Hi Richard, Thank you for this explanation, but please do not misunderstand my comments.
I think that you did a great job, and I said so in my email message.
I also acknowledge that you are not pressing anyone to do this, and that you are only offering some photos and guidance to anyone who may wish to copy your design, which I admire and appreciate.
I think that yours is an excellent solution to the problem of sourcing and fitting filters, and I admire the K & N products, and feel that the price is reasonable for lifetime filter. I am only suggesting another alternative method of securing it, which others may follow or disregard, in the same manner that you offered your solution.
Charles

On Jun 5, 2013, at 7:20 PM, richmccolman wrote:
> Bear in mind that the $70 price for the K&N filter that Bill mentions is a list price. Amazon has them for $42.99 each. The other point I'd like to make is that the K&N is a lifetime filter -- you clean it and then re-oil it over and over again. You should never need to buy another. And K&N filters come highly regarded, as I understand it, for filtering capability along with providing maximum air flow. You will need oil and cleaning solution too, but that stuff will last and last and last.
> How much do the original NOS air filters for the 600 cars cost -- when you can get them? One seller has them listed for $55 each. I'm sure that that's a fair price, given the scarcity of them, but if you use that as a point of comparison, $42.99 is quite good for lifetime filter, and $70 (only $15 additional compared with the K&N list price) isn't bad, I think. If you figure that a rebuilt engine is going to run you hundreds to thousands of $$$, depending upon the level of work and replacement needed and depending upon whether you hire someone to do it or do it yourself, the protection that a really good filter provides is darn well worth it, IMHO.
> As far as the level of difficulty in fabricating the spacer, it actually didn't take me but an hour and an half. Granted, I have a metal-cutting band saw and a drill press, but you could do essentially the same work using a jig saw with a metal-cutting blade and a handheld power drill with not much greater investment of time.
> In the end, I'm not pressing anyone to do the same thing that I did. I merely put the idea out there for anyone who might be interested. Sooner or later, folks' stock filter could deteriorate and need replacement (my stock filter had holes in the filter material), and the supply of NOS filters will eventually become depleted. I suspect that folks will need some options. This happens to be one.
> Richard
> --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "Bill" wrote:
> > Chas;
> > Richard does have the original spring clip on behind the spacer. I was
> > amazed at the cost of the filter, $70.00. Which seems a bit hard to
> > swallow. I would think there is another filter available for less. Another
> > suggestion is to remove the paper from the original Honda air filter and
> > wrap it with foam rubber like used in lawn mowers. It is a whole bunch
> > cheaper and will work like the original. I'll post a picture later.
> > Bill
> > _____
> > From:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of Chas
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 6:11 AM
> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Richard - new pics, z600 and K&N filter
> > While I appreciate the work involved and the desire to create this, it would
> > just seem so much easier to fabricate one or two spring steel clips much
> > like the original, but with substantially more depth, so secure the filter
> > in the same manner as originally designed. If you were concerned about the
> > depth of the clip, you could make them out of much wider material to ensure
> > that they did not tip or twist.
> > Chas
> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > , "richmccolman"
> > wrote:
> > > Hi John -- Yes, I imagine that you could get wood to work, though I'd
> > personally not be inclined to use it long-term, given that wood, being a
> > somewhat porous material, can absorb moisture, and can warp. I'm not sure
> > how big of an issue this would be, but it's something to consider. Perhaps
> > something like oak would be less prone to that, particularly if you sealed
> > the wood after cutting it to the correct dimensions.
> > > One reason why I went with the design that I did was that it allowed me to
> > tweak the thickness dimension of the spacer. On the other hand, that should
> > only need to be done once. As I said in one of the pic captions, 1-3/8
> > inches was the thickness I ended up with. Do note that that thickness is
> > appropriate if you use the self-adhesive foam gasket that comes with the K&N
> > filter. The other dimensions are the same as the footprint of the original
> > Honda 600 filter.
> > > Richard
> > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > , J Graf wrote:
> > > > Richard, clever idea. Would any block of material the same thickness as
> > your spacer work, or is there an issue of air flow through your design that
> > has benefit? I'm thinking of simply cutting a piece of wood .
> > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > John Graf
> Paragrafs.com
> > > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > , "richmccolman"
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi guys - I've uploaded new pics under the photo album
> > "richmccolman". One image of my z600, and several pics showing the air
> > filter/cleaner adaptation I did using a K&N HA-6592 reusable air filter
> > element and a custom-made spacer I made.
> > > > > > Richard