Don't get me wrong, this is not a pissing match. It's about keeping
Honda 600's going down the road. 60's technology gave us many things, but
carbon core wire was not in use yet. The article is not trying to say Bill
is right or that Richard is wrong. It simply states that solid wire spark
plug wires are not as efficient as carbon core or the MAG WIRE they are
selling. I could have use an article from CARB, but it's to long and had to
many negative issues, or was it their agenda? Either way all Honda 600 Coils
can be rewired and carbon core is one alternative.
Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:07 AM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] TO Bill
> Bill,
> I guess I am getting a different read of this file than you are.
> It still says that solid core wires are better than carbon core. It talks
> about newer technology wire that use an alloy wire spirally wound and then
> cover in carbon or graphite (some form of carbon). Again, the purpose of
> these wires is to reduce ignition noise. It did not say that carbon core
> wires are better than solid core wires.
> What it is also talking about is ignition wire that is wirewound alloy
> with carbon which is acting like a choke. A choke is a device used to
> reduce the electrical interference (aka EMF).
> One thing that I would worry about is how the screw that is in the coil,
> that is designed to have a solid core wire threaded onto it is going to
> tear up a carbon or spiral wound alloy and carbon wire. Typically, those
> wires have a sharp pin stuck in their ends to work. if you mangle up the
> end on them, there could possibly be a connection problem. It's just
> another reason to stick with solid core wires.
> If you are saying that you are using the wirewound (alloy means metal
> Bill) carbon or graphite core wire, then that's fine. That will perform in
> a manner similar to the solid core (stranded center) ignition wire. But in
> terms of performance, the solid core center (stranded wire), is still
> going to give better performance.
> As was stated in a previous email by someone else, the initial spark is
> the hottest and that is followed by the prolonged spark that completes
> the burn. A sparks length is determined by voltage not amperage. However,
> the ability to maintain the spark is dictated by available amperage, which
> by using resistor wires or any device that introduces resistance in series
> with the spark, will reduce to some degree, the available current
> (amperage).
> I am not going to respond to any further emails on this subject as I see
> it heading towards a pissing match. You are by far much more of the Honda
> 600 expert than I am, even though I have rebuilt (in the late 70's)
> somewhere around 15 or 16 of them). I have been down the road of trying
> all sorts of things to get these cars to run stronger, and one of the
> conclusions I came to was that the solid core wires (again, the original
> wires are solid core) with no resistor plug connectors, but the solid
> connectors and new silicone boots, simply work better.
> The bottom line here is that one or both of us has helped Matt with
> advice. From all indications, his 600 runs better than ever. I for one am
> happy about whichever way he did it.
> Richard Morris
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> []
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:53 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [anzhonda600owners] TO Bill
> Hi Murray;
> I am attaching a file that says what you're saying but in terms
> much easier to understand. Carbon Core wires will do the job better.
> Please read the attached file. See what Aurora has to say about
> spark plug wires.
> >
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [ Behalf Of Murray
> Atkinson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:47 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] TO Bill
> Richard is correct on this one.
> The use of resistive spark plug wires is to reduce electrical
> interference. The resistance increases the rise time of the voltage
> when the coil fires. Increasing the rise time (we are taking about
> nano-seconds to micro-seconds here) reduces the amount of energy
> emitted in the frequency ranges used by radio equipment.
> Do they reduce the amount of spark in the engine ? Not really
> because
> when the high voltages needed to create a spark (approx 10,000V) are
> produced, very little current is required, so the resistance doesn't
> really matter. Once the spark is established, the voltage required
> to
> maintain the spark is about 600V but the current is much much
> higher.
> But again, the resistance doesn't matter because the coil can
> produce
> plenty of voltage to overcome the (relatively) small resistance of
> the leads.
> That's why auto manufactures changed to carbon-core leads. Reduce
> radio interferance is important for lots of the electronics in and
> around a car.
> Copper core is maily used in racing because they are chasing the
> last
> 0.1% of performance out of every component. Also, copper core is
> stronger and not prone to internal cracking, which carbon core will
> do with under racing conditions and repeated handling.
> My AUS$0.02 worth.
> Murray.
> PS. In Australia, when the N600 were new, a common modification was
> to
> add a resistor to one of the spark plug leads to reduce radio
> interference.
> On Thursday 12 January 2006 06:41,
LewetagK@...
wrote:
> > Bill;
> > DO you live in Oregon, if so can you drop me a line at
_lewetagk@...
_ ()
> > Ken
> > In a message dated 1/11/2006 6:55:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
richard.morris@...
writes:
> > Bill,
> > I am glad this is the USA, because I can voice a differing
> > opinion.
> > I firmly believe that you are wrong on the wires. By the way, are
> > the original wires carbon or copper centers? (Copper of course!).
> > Here are a couple of points (no pun intended) to think on.
> > 1. the original wires are copper center.
> > 2. Race cars use copper center wire, not carbon center (drag
> > racers, NASCAR, etc)
> > 3. Power line companies use copper wire, they are in the business
> > of power transmission. If it were economical, they would use
> silver
> > or gold wire as they conduct even better. (and the larger the
> > diameter, the lower the losses). 4. Your first sentence says the
> > reason you use carbon center wires. You live in California. The
> > solid core wires create radio interference (i.e.: noise or
> > electrical pollution).
> > 5. A common resistor (a current limiting device) is a carbon
> > center. It is as bad as a low flow toilet. yes, they work, but I
> > want (and need) a power flush.
> > Don't take offense at these responses, but legally, you can put
> > solid core wires back on your Honda coil as the restrictions are
> > waived due to the vehicles age. Putting resistor wires on it is
> > akin to putting a cat converter on it. You don't have to do it.
> > If you still think I am wrong, I am willing to send you a set of
> > solid core wires to try. Your car will start and run better.
> > Richard Morris
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [] On Behalf Of Bill
> Colford
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:31 AM
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
;
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] I
> > want to replace sparkplug wires. What to use? Where to buy?
> > Spark Plug wires;
> > In California, EPA has out-law'd sale of anything but carbon
> > core wires for any vehicles but off road use. This is because
> > copper wire won't carry the current as effectively as carbon core
> > wires do. Here is an analogy that really fits. Look at current
> > as water running through a hose, copper wire is a water hose with
> > no nozzle on the end of the hose so at full pressure it pushes the
> > water a foot or so out the end. Place a nozzle on the end of
> that
> > same hose and it will shoot across the street. Carbon core wire
> > is like having a nozzle on the end of your wires.
> > Will copper wire work, yep, but carbon core wires work better.
> > And, if I have a choice I want better.
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [ Behalf Of Richard
> > Morris Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:50 AM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] I want to replace sparkplug wires.
> > What to use? Where to buy?
> > Marshall,
> > The wires are easily removed from the coil. Where the wires go
> > into the coil, there is some glue. It is just on the outside and
> > should be brittle. pop the glue free and twist the wire
> > counterclockwise. This unscrews it out of the coil. Try it. Do not
> > splice ignition wires, you will not get good results.
> > Once the wire is out, look down into the hole in the coil, you
> will
> > see the business end of a sheet metal screw that the wire screws
> > onto.
> > Richard Morris
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > [] On Behalf Of Marshall
> > Montchalin Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:40 AM
> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] I want to replace sparkplug wires.
> > What to use? Where to buy?
> > Two thoughts, first about changing coils to get new wires, then
> > about the chain:
> > About the wires -they are part of the coil, not attached
> separately
> > as distributor-based cars do...HERE'S 2 ideas WHAT To do:
> > 1. Go to a motorcycle repair shop, I once went to a Harley shop
> and
> > they sold me a fairly "hot" coil from a motorcycle after I
> > explained that my supercar was 4four-stroke but fires both
> > cylinders at the same time liike a two-stroke.
> > You just get an extra spark on the exhaust stroke for cleaner
> > running performance.
> > If you don't have motorcycle shops, a lawnmower repair shop would
> > work. The coil sparks through both plugs at the same time so a
> > normal 12,000 volt coil might not be hot enough, but a motorcycle
> > coil that puts out 18,000 volts might be about right, though you
> > can run a HOT sparking coil without more penalty than mroe
> > frequent replacement of points and plugs -no damage. Motorcycles
> > run the whole gamut of hot and cold coils, way more variety than
> > cars, and your serviceman can guide you somewhat as to which
> coils
> > are hotter.
> > OR
> > 2. YOU Can keep your coil and splice in regular car wires to the
> > ends of your ignition coil, one on each end, from coil to left
> plug
> > and from coil to right plug (unless the coil is as bad as the
> > wires) with no distributor in the middle just come off each end of
> > the coil secondary. The primary is grounded on one end and the
> > other goes to your points.
> > Once you time the engine, you will know if you must move the
> chain:
> > Very dangerous if you drop the chain into the engine! Use a coat
> > hangar to hook one end of the chainlink so nothing can fall,
> while
> > keeping a finger on the chain at the cam so you can count teeth.
> > Also know about the 600's sweet spot: my car liked to be one link
> > back and all the way forward at the timing adjustment. Whatever
> > makes it run the best. Don't change your chain tooth just
> > anywhere, but rotate the engine to TDC and the cam should line up
> > to its indexes as indicated in the manual. If you're off, then
> the
> > chain is off.
> > Best wishes, Marshall
> > I'm in the middle of a general tune up on my n600. I replaced a
> > bunch of stuff today and I'm hoping to also replace my spark plug
> > wires.
> > Since I've never delt with a coil system (like this at least)
> > before I'm a bit confused. I'm used to working on 90s civics
> > where the spark plug wires attach to the distributor.
> > Where can I get the proper wires/etc.? Mine are slightly
> > deteriorated and I'd prefer to just get a good set on there.
> > Any help is appreciated.
> > Matt
> > '88 Plymouth Sundance 2.2l
> > Used-to-drive: Chrysler Simca 1204
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