Honda 600 Motor Oil

Archived posts from the ANZ Honda 600 Owners Yahoo Group
Lyle
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:15 pm

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by Lyle »

Kurt, do some research, oil has changed a lot in the last 5 years and not in a good way for vintage stuff.
Check out this oil if you like Mobile 1.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... 0W-50.aspx
From my engine building experience and what I have read, we should use a motorcycle oil, because our Honda's are more like a motorcycle. Air cooled with the oil being used for the engine & transmission. Plus the motorcycle oil's still have all the good additives.
$30 is expensive for 3 quarts, but.....
My 2 cents
Lyle
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, notrace07@... wrote:
> Someone that is a engine person speak up please. I just bought Mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 @ $8.99 a quart X 3 X 2 cars= a lot to be the wrong type and lets try again, not to mention the filters.
> Back in the day I poured what ever was on the shelf or in a buddies garage that was free, All though you could buy a 600 for under a $1000 in good shape. Now after spending more that $1000+ just to get one running I would like to put the right oil in the first time. I know for the amount of driving these little guys are going to do I could get by on olive oil.
> Thanks to all for the help
> Kurt
> On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > If I add ZDDP plus to Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic or Castrol GTX 20-50 ill be safe then right? I'm due for my spring oil change and just wanna know ill be good for the summer.
> > Will adding the ZDDP plus to any oil make it suitable for running in our cars?
> > Eric J. Geiger
> > PRG Nocturne
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > egeiger@...
> > www.prgnocturne.com
> > On Feb 10, 2013, at 5:41 PM,
> > wrote:
> >> I'm glad I'm not the only one that is confused. I think the Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic???? I'm going with that I'm just about to see if my Hawaiian is going to live again after a 35 year rest.
> >> Kurt
> >> On Feb 10, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> >>> i can't even keep track of what I'm supposed to use anymore with all this chat. whats the consensus now on whats best.
> >>> Eric J. Geiger
> >>> PRG Nocturne
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> >>> egeiger@...
> >>> www.prgnocturne.com
> >>> On Feb 10, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Mark P Hatten wrote:
> >>>> I was worried to go too thin on oil. I went with Mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 weight. I don't notice any more power, but, my-my! does it shift better now. I think the old house brand standard 20-50 oil was cold and thick.
> >>>> It is worth it just for the better shift feel.
> >>>> The next oil change I may go down to 15-40 synthetic and try that.
> >>>> Mark
> >>>> www.mphspecialties.com
> >>>> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> From: lyletrudell@...
> >>>> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:14:30 +0000
> >>>> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil
> >>>> ZDDP levels and air cooled flat tappet engines.
> >>>> SHELL REPLY:
> >>>> As I explained to you over the phone Phosphorus and Zinc content is not a criteria to be used in selecting the right oil for an engine. Rotella T 15W-40 meets API CJ-4, and supersedes CI-4 and previous specs. Maximum allowable Phosphorus content for API CJ-4 specified oils is 1200ppm. Phosphorus (S) and Zinc (Zn) comes from ZDDP additives used in the oil.
> >>>> Although, S and Zn content of Rotella T 15W-40 was slightly lowered to meet CJ-4 specification, the performance of the oil has not been compromised compared to previous Rotella T with CI-4 spec. In fact, new Rotella T 15W-40 shows better wear resistance, deposit control and reduced emissions. This was achieved by the improvements in additive technologies and Shell's advanced oil formulation techniques.
> >>>> However, if a customer is still insisting on a product with CI-4 spec then our Rimula Premium 15W-40 can be offered.
> >>>> Technical Representative Lubes & Fuels
> >>>> Shell Canada Products
> >>>> CASTROL REPLY:
> >>>> Unfortunately Castrol's oils formulations are proprietary information and are not released to the general public.
> >>>> However, we can tell you that the ZDDP levels have been reduced.
> >>>> We DO NOT recommend any of our GTX Dino oils for flat-tappet engines; we recommend Syntec for older cars.
> >>>> Castrol Consumer Relations.
> >>>> I called Castrol to confirm this.
> >>>> They do not recommend any of their Dino oils (Including 20W50 and 15W40 Diesel) for our air-cooled engines (Or any engine with flat tappets)
> >>>> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, Mark P Hatten wrote:
> >>>> > I'm itching to try some synthetic Mobil 1 , 15-40 wt. turbo truck oil in my Z coupe. The 20-50 seems so thick, and we have such a cool cliamte I don't think it ever warms up enough. Hoping for a little more zip !
> >>>> > www.mphspecialties.com
> >>>> > To: richmccolman@;
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> > From: mattferkey@
> >>>> > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:29:40 -0800
> >>>> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> >>>> > I've always been an amsoil guy... They came out with a new oil called ZROD and it has the extra zink our cars love.
> >>>> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> >>>> > From: richmccolman
> >>>> > Sent: 1/30/2013 8:51 PM
> >>>> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> >>>> > Yep, Castrol GTX 20-50. It has reasonably high levels of anti-wear ZDDP, though there are some who say that for engine break-in, even higher levels of ZDDP might be needed. I've gotten some ZDDPlus additive, myself.
> >>>> > Whatever you do, DO NOT use any oil that says "Resource Conserving" on the round API icon on the bottle. Those types of oils have quite low levels of ZDDP, and will definitely lead to premature engine wear, particularly on the valve lifters. (Those oils are okay only for newer cars that have roller lifters.)
> >>>> > Note that some Castrol oils are the "Resource Conserving" type, and should NOT be used in our older cars. Make sure to look at the round API symbol and make sure that the words "Resource Conserving" ARE NOT there when choosing your oil.
> >>>> > Richard
> >>>> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Eric Geiger wrote:
> >>>> > > I believe I've re Castro GTX recommended.
> >>>> > > Eric J. Geiger
> >>>> > > ---------------------------------------
> >>>> > > PRG Nocturne
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> >>>> > > egeiger@
> >>>> > > www.prgnocturne.com
> >>>> > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:12 PM, "ROBERTO" > wrote:
> >>>> > > SAME OIL AS ANY 4 STROKE AIR COOLED ENGINE
> >>>> > > if you overbore, is from the oil contamination can occur faster,the engine works on bearings, i use castrol sae 40 or 30 on winter and
> >>>> > > 20w50 on sumer ( i live on the baja cal desert area )
> >>>> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "braulio_morales" wrote:
> >>>> > > > What Motor Oil do you guys recommend on a rebuilt engine?
> >>>> > > > thanks!!!
notrace07
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:02 am

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by notrace07 »

Kurt
On Feb 10, 2013, at 7:44 PM, "Lyle" wrote:
Kurt, do some research, oil has changed a lot in the last 5 years and not in a good way for vintage stuff.
Check out this oil if you like Mobile 1.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... 0W-50.aspx
From my engine building experience and what I have read, we should use a motorcycle oil, because our Honda's are more like a motorcycle. Air cooled with the oil being used for the engine & transmission. Plus the motorcycle oil's still have all the good additives.
$30 is expensive for 3 quarts, but.....
My 2 cents
Lyle
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, notrace07@... wrote:
> Someone that is a engine person speak up please. I just bought Mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 @ $8.99 a quart X 3 X 2 cars= a lot to be the wrong type and lets try again, not to mention the filters.
> Back in the day I poured what ever was on the shelf or in a buddies garage that was free, All though you could buy a 600 for under a $1000 in good shape. Now after spending more that $1000+ just to get one running I would like to put the right oil in the first time. I know for the amount of driving these little guys are going to do I could get by on olive oil.
> Thanks to all for the help
> Kurt
> On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > If I add ZDDP plus to Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic or Castrol GTX 20-50 ill be safe then right? I'm due for my spring oil change and just wanna know ill be good for the summer.
> > Will adding the ZDDP plus to any oil make it suitable for running in our cars?
> > Eric J. Geiger
> > PRG Nocturne
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
> > On Feb 10, 2013, at 5:41 PM,
> > wrote:
> >> I'm glad I'm not the only one that is confused. I think the Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic???? I'm going with that I'm just about to see if my Hawaiian is going to live again after a 35 year rest.
> >> Kurt
> >> On Feb 10, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> >>> i can't even keep track of what I'm supposed to use anymore with all this chat. whats the consensus now on whats best.
> >>> Eric J. Geiger
> >>> PRG Nocturne
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> >>> egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
> >>> On Feb 10, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Mark P Hatten wrote:
> >>>> I was worried to go too thin on oil. I went with Mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 weight. I don't notice any more power, but, my-my! does it shift better now. I think the old house brand standard 20-50 oil was cold and thick.
> >>>> It is worth it just for the better shift feel.
> >>>> The next oil change I may go down to 15-40 synthetic and try that.
> >>>> Mark
www.mphspecialties.com
> >>>> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> From: lyletrudell@...
> >>>> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:14:30 +0000
> >>>> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil
> >>>> ZDDP levels and air cooled flat tappet engines.
> >>>> SHELL REPLY:
> >>>> As I explained to you over the phone Phosphorus and Zinc content is not a criteria to be used in selecting the right oil for an engine. Rotella T 15W-40 meets API CJ-4, and supersedes CI-4 and previous specs. Maximum allowable Phosphorus content for API CJ-4 specified oils is 1200ppm. Phosphorus (S) and Zinc (Zn) comes from ZDDP additives used in the oil.
> >>>> Although, S and Zn content of Rotella T 15W-40 was slightly lowered to meet CJ-4 specification, the performance of the oil has not been compromised compared to previous Rotella T with CI-4 spec. In fact, new Rotella T 15W-40 shows better wear resistance, deposit control and reduced emissions. This was achieved by the improvements in additive technologies and Shell's advanced oil formulation techniques.
> >>>> However, if a customer is still insisting on a product with CI-4 spec then our Rimula Premium 15W-40 can be offered.
> >>>> Technical Representative Lubes & Fuels
> >>>> Shell Canada Products
> >>>> CASTROL REPLY:
> >>>> Unfortunately Castrol's oils formulations are proprietary information and are not released to the general public.
> >>>> However, we can tell you that the ZDDP levels have been reduced.
> >>>> We DO NOT recommend any of our GTX Dino oils for flat-tappet engines; we recommend Syntec for older cars.
> >>>> Castrol Consumer Relations.
> >>>> I called Castrol to confirm this.
> >>>> They do not recommend any of their Dino oils (Including 20W50 and 15W40 Diesel) for our air-cooled engines (Or any engine with flat tappets)
> >>>> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, Mark P Hatten wrote:
> >>>> > I'm itching to try some synthetic Mobil 1 , 15-40 wt. turbo truck oil in my Z coupe. The 20-50 seems so thick, and we have such a cool cliamte I don't think it ever warms up enough. Hoping for a little more zip !
www.mphspecialties.com
> >>>> > To: richmccolman@;
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> > From: mattferkey@
> >>>> > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:29:40 -0800
> >>>> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> >>>> > I've always been an amsoil guy... They came out with a new oil called ZROD and it has the extra zink our cars love.
> >>>> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> >>>> > From: richmccolman
> >>>> > Sent: 1/30/2013 8:51 PM
> >>>> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> >>>> > Yep, Castrol GTX 20-50. It has reasonably high levels of anti-wear ZDDP, though there are some who say that for engine break-in, even higher levels of ZDDP might be needed. I've gotten some ZDDPlus additive, myself.
> >>>> > Whatever you do, DO NOT use any oil that says "Resource Conserving" on the round API icon on the bottle. Those types of oils have quite low levels of ZDDP, and will definitely lead to premature engine wear, particularly on the valve lifters. (Those oils are okay only for newer cars that have roller lifters.)
> >>>> > Note that some Castrol oils are the "Resource Conserving" type, and should NOT be used in our older cars. Make sure to look at the round API symbol and make sure that the words "Resource Conserving" ARE NOT there when choosing your oil.
> >>>> > Richard
> >>>> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Eric Geiger wrote:
> >>>> > > I believe I've re Castro GTX recommended.
> >>>> > > Eric J. Geiger
> >>>> > > ---------------------------------------
> >>>> > > PRG Nocturne
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> >>>> > > egeiger@
www.prgnocturne.com
> >>>> > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:12 PM, "ROBERTO" > wrote:
> >>>> > > SAME OIL AS ANY 4 STROKE AIR COOLED ENGINE
> >>>> > > if you overbore, is from the oil contamination can occur faster,the engine works on bearings, i use castrol sae 40 or 30 on winter and
> >>>> > > 20w50 on sumer ( i live on the baja cal desert area )
> >>>> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "braulio_morales" wrote:
> >>>> > > > What Motor Oil do you guys recommend on a rebuilt engine?
> >>>> > > > thanks!!!
notrace07
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:02 am

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by notrace07 »

Lyle
Thank you for all the info, I now feel like I'm up to speed a oil pro.  I have 2 n600 so I think just for fun I'm going to put The V-twin in one and the AmsOil in the other. At least I know I have the 2 best rated oils for now until they change the recipe again.
Thanks again  Kurt
On Feb 10, 2013, at 7:44 PM, "Lyle" wrote:
Kurt, do some research, oil has changed a lot in the last 5 years and not in a good way for vintage stuff.
Check out this oil if you like Mobile 1.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... 0W-50.aspx
From my engine building experience and what I have read, we should use a motorcycle oil, because our Honda's are more like a motorcycle. Air cooled with the oil being used for the engine & transmission. Plus the motorcycle oil's still have all the good additives.
$30 is expensive for 3 quarts, but.....
My 2 cents
Lyle
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, notrace07@... wrote:
> Someone that is a engine person speak up please. I just bought Mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 @ $8.99 a quart X 3 X 2 cars= a lot to be the wrong type and lets try again, not to mention the filters.
> Back in the day I poured what ever was on the shelf or in a buddies garage that was free, All though you could buy a 600 for under a $1000 in good shape. Now after spending more that $1000+ just to get one running I would like to put the right oil in the first time. I know for the amount of driving these little guys are going to do I could get by on olive oil.
> Thanks to all for the help
> Kurt
> On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > If I add ZDDP plus to Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic or Castrol GTX 20-50 ill be safe then right? I'm due for my spring oil change and just wanna know ill be good for the summer.
> > Will adding the ZDDP plus to any oil make it suitable for running in our cars?
> > Eric J. Geiger
> > PRG Nocturne
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
> > On Feb 10, 2013, at 5:41 PM,
> > wrote:
> >> I'm glad I'm not the only one that is confused. I think the Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic???? I'm going with that I'm just about to see if my Hawaiian is going to live again after a 35 year rest.
> >> Kurt
> >> On Feb 10, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> >>> i can't even keep track of what I'm supposed to use anymore with all this chat. whats the consensus now on whats best.
> >>> Eric J. Geiger
> >>> PRG Nocturne
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> >>> egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
> >>> On Feb 10, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Mark P Hatten wrote:
> >>>> I was worried to go too thin on oil. I went with Mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 weight. I don't notice any more power, but, my-my! does it shift better now. I think the old house brand standard 20-50 oil was cold and thick.
> >>>> It is worth it just for the better shift feel.
> >>>> The next oil change I may go down to 15-40 synthetic and try that.
> >>>> Mark
www.mphspecialties.com
> >>>> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> From: lyletrudell@...
> >>>> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:14:30 +0000
> >>>> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil
> >>>> ZDDP levels and air cooled flat tappet engines.
> >>>> SHELL REPLY:
> >>>> As I explained to you over the phone Phosphorus and Zinc content is not a criteria to be used in selecting the right oil for an engine. Rotella T 15W-40 meets API CJ-4, and supersedes CI-4 and previous specs. Maximum allowable Phosphorus content for API CJ-4 specified oils is 1200ppm. Phosphorus (S) and Zinc (Zn) comes from ZDDP additives used in the oil.
> >>>> Although, S and Zn content of Rotella T 15W-40 was slightly lowered to meet CJ-4 specification, the performance of the oil has not been compromised compared to previous Rotella T with CI-4 spec. In fact, new Rotella T 15W-40 shows better wear resistance, deposit control and reduced emissions. This was achieved by the improvements in additive technologies and Shell's advanced oil formulation techniques.
> >>>> However, if a customer is still insisting on a product with CI-4 spec then our Rimula Premium 15W-40 can be offered.
> >>>> Technical Representative Lubes & Fuels
> >>>> Shell Canada Products
> >>>> CASTROL REPLY:
> >>>> Unfortunately Castrol's oils formulations are proprietary information and are not released to the general public.
> >>>> However, we can tell you that the ZDDP levels have been reduced.
> >>>> We DO NOT recommend any of our GTX Dino oils for flat-tappet engines; we recommend Syntec for older cars.
> >>>> Castrol Consumer Relations.
> >>>> I called Castrol to confirm this.
> >>>> They do not recommend any of their Dino oils (Including 20W50 and 15W40 Diesel) for our air-cooled engines (Or any engine with flat tappets)
> >>>> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, Mark P Hatten wrote:
> >>>> > I'm itching to try some synthetic Mobil 1 , 15-40 wt. turbo truck oil in my Z coupe. The 20-50 seems so thick, and we have such a cool cliamte I don't think it ever warms up enough. Hoping for a little more zip !
www.mphspecialties.com
> >>>> > To: richmccolman@;
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> > From: mattferkey@
> >>>> > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:29:40 -0800
> >>>> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> >>>> > I've always been an amsoil guy... They came out with a new oil called ZROD and it has the extra zink our cars love.
> >>>> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> >>>> > From: richmccolman
> >>>> > Sent: 1/30/2013 8:51 PM
> >>>> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> >>>> > Yep, Castrol GTX 20-50. It has reasonably high levels of anti-wear ZDDP, though there are some who say that for engine break-in, even higher levels of ZDDP might be needed. I've gotten some ZDDPlus additive, myself.
> >>>> > Whatever you do, DO NOT use any oil that says "Resource Conserving" on the round API icon on the bottle. Those types of oils have quite low levels of ZDDP, and will definitely lead to premature engine wear, particularly on the valve lifters. (Those oils are okay only for newer cars that have roller lifters.)
> >>>> > Note that some Castrol oils are the "Resource Conserving" type, and should NOT be used in our older cars. Make sure to look at the round API symbol and make sure that the words "Resource Conserving" ARE NOT there when choosing your oil.
> >>>> > Richard
> >>>> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Eric Geiger wrote:
> >>>> > > I believe I've re Castro GTX recommended.
> >>>> > > Eric J. Geiger
> >>>> > > ---------------------------------------
> >>>> > > PRG Nocturne
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> >>>> > > egeiger@
www.prgnocturne.com
> >>>> > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:12 PM, "ROBERTO" > wrote:
> >>>> > > SAME OIL AS ANY 4 STROKE AIR COOLED ENGINE
> >>>> > > if you overbore, is from the oil contamination can occur faster,the engine works on bearings, i use castrol sae 40 or 30 on winter and
> >>>> > > 20w50 on sumer ( i live on the baja cal desert area )
> >>>> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, "braulio_morales" wrote:
> >>>> > > > What Motor Oil do you guys recommend on a rebuilt engine?
> >>>> > > > thanks!!!
Bill
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:34 am

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by Bill »

Hi Hi Kurt;
My two cents worth.  I have been running Honda 600's since 1989, rebuilt or built quite a number.  Back in 91 I found that many of the engines I was taking apart (because they didn't run) were full of oil burnt tar on the inside cases.  Maybe because they were driven with out having the oil changed or running the wrong oil.  I chose a motor cycle oil   (Torco) made for engines using the same oil for the transmission as the crank case ( like Honda 600's) and it was always  Torco
20W50.  In the winter months here in San Diego, getting down to 45 degrees, I would run
Torco 5W30.  And I ran and still run Oil coolers on my cars.
 ( Except for my 72 Coupe which is all original and has not had more that 1500 miles in 12 years.
 )   Before putting an oil cooler on any of my Honda 600's I put a temp gage sending unit on the oil drain plug of one of my cars.  I noted that the oil was staying at around 165 when on the freeways.  But after leaving the freeway and hitting the first traffic light the temp would peg at 230 and rising. So I put on a oil cooler full flow with a remote filter ala VW remote cooler.  I left the temp sending unit in the oil drain plug and watched the temp as I drove the car.  Then I pulled the engine after 10K and checked out the internal parts.  Not only was the engine spotless it never got above 190 degrees and that was even after coming off the  freeway.   I pulled that engine every 10K until I reached 45K with the oil cooler on it and never found burnt oil, or excessive wear on any of the parts.  Does putting an oil cooler on your car mean that you will never have to rebuild your car again?  No, it means that the oil will maintain its viscosity longer allowing it to lubricate more effectively helping to keep its internal components running with minimal wear.
Bill
richmccolman
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by richmccolman »

So how do you add the filter and cooler, Bill? Is there any drilling and tapping of the engine involved? Or is it simply a bolt-on addition?
Thanks,
Richard
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Bill" wrote:
> Hi Hi Kurt;
> My two cents worth. I have been running Honda 600's since 1989, rebuilt
> or built quite a number. Back in 91 I found that many of the engines I was
> taking apart (because they didn't run) were full of oil burnt tar on the
> inside cases. Maybe because they were driven with out having the oil
> changed or running the wrong oil. I chose a motor cycle oil (Torco) made
> for engines using the same oil for the transmission as the crank case ( like
> Honda 600's) and it was always Torco 20W50. In the winter months here in
> San Diego, getting down to 45 degrees, I would run Torco 5W30. And I ran
> and still run Oil coolers on my cars. ( Except for my 72 Coupe which is
> all original and has not had more that 1500 miles in 12 years. ) Before
> putting an oil cooler on any of my Honda 600's I put a temp gage sending
> unit on the oil drain plug of one of my cars. I noted that the oil was
> staying at around 165 when on the freeways. But after leaving the freeway
> and hitting the first traffic light the temp would peg at 230 and rising. So
> I put on a oil cooler full flow with a remote filter ala VW remote cooler.
> I left the temp sending unit in the oil drain plug and watched the temp as I
> drove the car. Then I pulled the engine after 10K and checked out the
> internal parts. Not only was the engine spotless it never got above 190
> degrees and that was even after coming off the freeway. I pulled that
> engine every 10K until I reached 45K with the oil cooler on it and never
> found burnt oil, or excessive wear on any of the parts. Does putting an oil
> cooler on your car mean that you will never have to rebuild your car again?
> No, it means that the oil will maintain its viscosity longer allowing it to
> lubricate more effectively helping to keep its internal components running
> with minimal wear.
> Bill
> _____
> From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of notrace07@...
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 8:44 PM
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil
> Kurt
> On Feb 10, 2013, at 7:44 PM, "Lyle" wrote:
> Kurt, do some research, oil has changed a lot in the last 5 years and not in
> a good way for vintage stuff.
> Check out this oil if you like Mobile 1.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... 0W-50.aspx
> From my engine building experience and what I have read, we should use a
> motorcycle oil, because our Honda's are more like a motorcycle. Air cooled
> with the oil being used for the engine & transmission. Plus the motorcycle
> oil's still have all the good additives.
> $30 is expensive for 3 quarts, but.....
> My 2 cents
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , notrace07@ wrote:
> > Someone that is a engine person speak up please. I just bought Mobil 1
> synthetic 15-50 @ $8.99 a quart X 3 X 2 cars= a lot to be the wrong type and
> lets try again, not to mention the filters.
> > Back in the day I poured what ever was on the shelf or in a buddies garage
> that was free, All though you could buy a 600 for under a $1000 in good
> shape. Now after spending more that $1000+ just to get one running I would
> like to put the right oil in the first time. I know for the amount of
> driving these little guys are going to do I could get by on olive oil.
> > Thanks to all for the help
> > Kurt
> > On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > > If I add ZDDP plus to Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic or Castrol GTX 20-50 ill
> be safe then right? I'm due for my spring oil change and just wanna know ill
> be good for the summer.
> > > Will adding the ZDDP plus to any oil make it suitable for running in our
> cars?
> > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > PRG Nocturne
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > > egeiger@
> > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > On Feb 10, 2013, at 5:41 PM,
> > > wrote:
> > >> I'm glad I'm not the only one that is confused. I think the Mobil 1
> 15-50 synthetic???? I'm going with that I'm just about to see if my Hawaiian
> is going to live again after a 35 year rest.
> > >> Kurt
> > >> On Feb 10, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > >>> i can't even keep track of what I'm supposed to use anymore with all
> this chat. whats the consensus now on whats best.
> > >>> Eric J. Geiger
> > >>> PRG Nocturne
> > >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > >>> egeiger@
> > >>> www.prgnocturne.com
> > >>> On Feb 10, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Mark P Hatten wrote:
> > >>>> I was worried to go too thin on oil. I went with Mobil 1 synthetic
> 15-50 weight. I don't notice any more power, but, my-my! does it shift
> better now. I think the old house brand standard 20-50 oil was cold and
> thick.
> > >>>> It is worth it just for the better shift feel.
> > >>>> The next oil change I may go down to 15-40 synthetic and try that.
> > >>>> Mark
> > >>>> www.mphspecialties.com
> > >>>> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>> From: lyletrudell@
> > >>>> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:14:30 +0000
> > >>>> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil
> > >>>> ZDDP levels and air cooled flat tappet engines.
> > >>>> SHELL REPLY:
> > >>>> As I explained to you over the phone Phosphorus and Zinc content is
> not a criteria to be used in selecting the right oil for an engine. Rotella
> T 15W-40 meets API CJ-4, and supersedes CI-4 and previous specs. Maximum
> allowable Phosphorus content for API CJ-4 specified oils is 1200ppm.
> Phosphorus (S) and Zinc (Zn) comes from ZDDP additives used in the oil.
> > >>>> Although, S and Zn content of Rotella T 15W-40 was slightly lowered
> to meet CJ-4 specification, the performance of the oil has not been
> compromised compared to previous Rotella T with CI-4 spec. In fact, new
> Rotella T 15W-40 shows better wear resistance, deposit control and reduced
> emissions. This was achieved by the improvements in additive technologies
> and Shell's advanced oil formulation techniques.
> > >>>> However, if a customer is still insisting on a product with CI-4 spec
> then our Rimula Premium 15W-40 can be offered.
> > >>>> Technical Representative Lubes & Fuels
> > >>>> Shell Canada Products
> > >>>> CASTROL REPLY:
> > >>>> Unfortunately Castrol's oils formulations are proprietary information
> and are not released to the general public.
> > >>>> However, we can tell you that the ZDDP levels have been reduced.
> > >>>> We DO NOT recommend any of our GTX Dino oils for flat-tappet engines;
> we recommend Syntec for older cars.
> > >>>> Castrol Consumer Relations.
> > >>>> I called Castrol to confirm this.
> > >>>> They do not recommend any of their Dino oils (Including 20W50 and
> 15W40 Diesel) for our air-cooled engines (Or any engine with flat tappets)
> > >>>> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , Mark P Hatten wrote:
> > >>>> > I'm itching to try some synthetic Mobil 1 , 15-40 wt. turbo truck
> oil in my Z coupe. The 20-50 seems so thick, and we have such a cool cliamte
> I don't think it ever warms up enough. Hoping for a little more zip !
> > >>>> > www.mphspecialties.com
> > >>>> > To: richmccolman@;
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>> > From: mattferkey@
> > >>>> > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:29:40 -0800
> > >>>> > Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> > >>>> > I've always been an amsoil guy... They came out with a new oil
> called ZROD and it has the extra zink our cars love.
> > >>>> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > >>>> > From: richmccolman
> > >>>> > Sent: 1/30/2013 8:51 PM
> > >>>> > To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>> > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> > >>>> > Yep, Castrol GTX 20-50. It has reasonably high levels of anti-wear
> ZDDP, though there are some who say that for engine break-in, even higher
> levels of ZDDP might be needed. I've gotten some ZDDPlus additive, myself.
> > >>>> > Whatever you do, DO NOT use any oil that says "Resource Conserving"
> on the round API icon on the bottle. Those types of oils have quite low
> levels of ZDDP, and will definitely lead to premature engine wear,
> particularly on the valve lifters. (Those oils are okay only for newer cars
> that have roller lifters.)
> > >>>> > Note that some Castrol oils are the "Resource Conserving" type, and
> should NOT be used in our older cars. Make sure to look at the round API
> symbol and make sure that the words "Resource Conserving" ARE NOT there when
> choosing your oil.
> > >>>> > Richard
> > >>>> > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , Eric Geiger wrote:
> > >>>> > > I believe I've re Castro GTX recommended.
> > >>>> > > Eric J. Geiger
> > >>>> > > ---------------------------------------
> > >>>> > > PRG Nocturne
> > >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > >>>> > > egeiger@
> > >>>> > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > >>>> > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:12 PM, "ROBERTO" > wrote:
> > >>>> > > SAME OIL AS ANY 4 STROKE AIR COOLED ENGINE
> > >>>> > > if you overbore, is from the oil contamination can occur
> faster,the engine works on bearings, i use castrol sae 40 or 30 on winter
> and
> > >>>> > > 20w50 on sumer ( i live on the baja cal desert area )
> > >>>> > > --- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "braulio_morales" wrote:
> > >>>> > > > What Motor Oil do you guys recommend on a rebuilt engine?
> > >>>> > > > thanks!!!
Harry Lineback
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:07 pm

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by Harry Lineback »

Once AGAIN Bill you have related such a superb explanation on the Honda 600 oil system.. (as they say in the Navy) "A HEARTY WELL DONE!".
Harry Sent from my iPad
On Feb 10, 2013, at 10:21 PM, "Bill" wrote:
Hi
Hi
Kurt;
My two cents worth.  I have been running Honda
600's since 1989, rebuilt or built quite a number.  Back in 91 I found that many of the engines I was taking apart (because they didn't run) were full of oil burnt tar on the inside cases.  Maybe because they were driven with out having the oil changed or running the wrong oil.  I chose a motor cycle oil (Torco) made for engines using the same oil for the transmission as the crank case ( like Honda 600's) and it was always Torco
20W50.  In the winter months here in San Diego, getting down to 45 degrees, I would run
Torco
5W30.  And I ran and still run Oil coolers on my
cars.
(
Except for
my 72 Coupe which is all original and has not had more that 1500 miles in 12 years.
)
Before
putting an oil cooler on any of my Honda 600's I put a temp gage sending unit on the oil drain plug of one of my cars.  I noted that the oil was staying at around 165 when on the freeways.  But after leaving the freeway and hitting the first traffic light the temp would peg at 230 and rising. So I put on a oil cooler full flow with a remote filter ala VW remote cooler.  I left the temp sending unit in the oil drain plug and watched the temp as I drove the car.  Then I pulled the engine after 10K and checked out the internal parts.  Not only was the engine spotless it never got above 190 degrees and that was even after coming off the freeway.   I pulled that engine every 10K until I reached 45K with the oil cooler on it and never found burnt oil, or excessive wear on any of the parts.  Does putting an oil cooler on your car mean that you will never have to rebuild your car again?  No, it means that the oil will maintain its viscosity longer allowing it to lubricate more effectively helping to keep its internal components running with minimal wear.
Bill
From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
[
mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
]
On Behalf Of
notrace07@...
Sent:
Sunday, February 10, 2013 8:44
PM
To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
Re:
[anzhonda600owners] Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil
Kurt
On Feb 10, 2013, at 7:44 PM, "Lyle" Kurt, do some research, oil has changed a lot in the last 5 years and not > in a good way for vintage stuff.
> Check out this oil if you like Mobile
> 1.
> http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... 0W-50.aspx > From > my engine building experience and what I have read, we should use a motorcycle > oil, because our Honda's are more like a motorcycle. Air cooled with the oil > being used for the engine & transmission. Plus the motorcycle oil's still > have all the good additives.
> $30 is expensive for 3 quarts, but.....
> My
> 2 cents
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> notrace07@... wrote:
> > Someone that is a engine person speak up
> please. I just bought Mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 @ $8.99 a quart X 3 X 2 cars= a > lot to be the wrong type and lets try again, not to mention the filters.
> > Back in the day I poured what ever was on the shelf or in a buddies > garage that was free, All though you could buy a 600 for under a $1000 in good > shape. Now after spending more that $1000+ just to get one running I would > like to put the right oil in the first time. I know for the amount of driving > these little guys are going to do I could get by on olive oil.
> > Thanks to all for the help
> > Kurt
> > On
> Feb 10, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > > If I add
> ZDDP plus to Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic or Castrol GTX 20-50 ill be safe then > right? I'm due for my spring oil change and just wanna know ill be good for > the summer.
> > > Will adding the ZDDP plus
> to any oil make it suitable for running in our cars?
> > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > PRG Nocturne
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> egeiger@...
> www.prgnocturne.com
> > > On Feb 10, 2013, at 5:41 PM,
> > > wrote:
> > >> I'm glad I'm not the
> only one that is confused. I think the Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic???? I'm going > with that I'm just about to see if my Hawaiian is going to live again after a > 35 year rest.
> > >> Kurt
> > >> On Feb 10, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> > >>> i can't even keep track
> of what I'm supposed to use anymore with all this chat. whats the consensus > now on whats best.
> > >>> Eric J.
> Geiger
> > >>> PRG Nocturne
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> >>> XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > >>> egeiger@...
> www.prgnocturne.com
> > >>> On Feb 10, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Mark P Hatten
> wrote:
> > >>>> I was worried to go too thin on
> oil. I went with Mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 weight. I don't notice any more > power, but, my-my! does it shift better now. I think the old house brand > standard 20-50 oil was cold and thick.
> >>>> It is worth it just for the better shift feel.
> > >>>> The next oil change I may go down
> to 15-40 synthetic and try that.
> > >>>> Mark
> www.mphspecialties.com
> > >>>> To:
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> From: lyletrudell@...
> > >>>> Date: Sun, 10
> Feb 2013 16:14:30 +0000
> > >>>> Subject: [anzhonda600owners]
> Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil
> > >>>> ZDDP levels and air cooled flat tappet
> engines.
> > >>>> SHELL REPLY:
> > >>>> As I
> explained to you over the phone Phosphorus and Zinc content is not a criteria > to be used in selecting the right oil for an engine. Rotella T 15W-40 meets > API CJ-4, and supersedes CI-4 and previous specs. Maximum allowable Phosphorus > content for API CJ-4 specified oils is 1200ppm. Phosphorus (S) and Zinc (Zn) > comes from ZDDP additives used in the oil.
> > >>>> Although,
> S and Zn content of Rotella T 15W-40 was slightly lowered to meet CJ-4 > specification, the performance of the oil has not been compromised compared to > previous Rotella T with CI-4 spec. In fact, new Rotella T 15W-40 shows better > wear resistance, deposit control and reduced emissions. This was achieved by > the improvements in additive technologies and Shell's advanced oil formulation > techniques.
> > >>>> However, if a
> customer is still insisting on a product with CI-4 spec then our Rimula > Premium 15W-40 can be offered.
> >>>> Technical Representative Lubes & Fuels
> >>>> Shell Canada Products
> >>>> CASTROL REPLY:
> > >>>> Unfortunately
> Castrol's oils formulations are proprietary information and are not released > to the general public.
> > >>>> However, we can tell you that
> the ZDDP levels have been reduced.
> > >>>> We DO NOT
> recommend any of our GTX Dino oils for flat-tappet engines; we recommend > Syntec for older cars.
> Castrol Consumer Relations.
> I called Castrol to confirm this.
> > >>>> They do not
> recommend any of their Dino oils (Including 20W50 and 15W40 Diesel) for our > air-cooled engines (Or any engine with flat tappets)
> > >>>> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> Mark P Hatten wrote:
> > >>>> > I'm itching to try some synthetic Mobil 1
> , 15-40 wt. turbo truck oil in my Z coupe. The 20-50 seems so thick, and we > have such a cool cliamte I don't think it ever warms up enough. Hoping for a > little more zip !
> www.mphspecialties.com
> >>>> > To: richmccolman@;
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> > From: mattferkey@
> > >>>> > Date:
> Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:29:40 -0800
> > >>>> > Subject: RE:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> >>>> > I've always been an amsoil guy... They came out with a > new oil called ZROD and it has the extra zink our cars love.
> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > >>>> > From:
> richmccolman
> Sent: 1/30/2013 8:51 PM
> > >>>> > To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>> > Subject:
> [2cylinderhondas] Re: Motor Oil
> > >>>> > Yep,
> Castrol GTX 20-50. It has reasonably high levels of anti-wear ZDDP, though > there are some who say that for engine break-in, even higher levels of ZDDP > might be needed. I've gotten some ZDDPlus additive, myself.
> > >>>> > Whatever
> you do, DO NOT use any oil that says "Resource Conserving" on the round API > icon on the bottle. Those types of oils have quite low levels of ZDDP, and > will definitely lead to premature engine wear, particularly on the valve > lifters. (Those oils are okay only for newer cars that have roller > lifters.)
> >>>> > Note that some Castrol oils are the "Resource
> Conserving" type, and should NOT be used in our older cars. Make sure to look > at the round API symbol and make sure that the words "Resource Conserving" ARE > NOT there when choosing your oil.
> > >>>> > Richard
> >>>> > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> Eric Geiger wrote:
> > >>>> > > I
> believe I've re Castro GTX recommended.
> >>>> > > Eric J. Geiger
> ---------------------------------------
> >>>> > > PRG Nocturne
> >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
> > >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
> > >>>> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
> > >>>> > > egeiger@
> www.prgnocturne.com
> > >>>> > > On Jan 30, 2013, at
> 12:12 PM, "ROBERTO" > wrote:
> >>>> > > SAME OIL AS ANY 4 STROKE AIR COOLED ENGINE
> > >>>> > > if you overbore, is
> from the oil contamination can occur faster,the engine works on bearings, i > use castrol sae 40 or 30 on winter and
> >>>> > > 20w50 on sumer ( i live on the baja cal desert area > )
> > >>>> > > --- In
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> , "braulio_morales" wrote:
> >>>> > > > What Motor Oil do you guys recommend on a
> rebuilt engine?
> > > thanks!!!
Mark P Hatten
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:55 am

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by Mark P Hatten »

I think you have to tap the center bolt that tightens the oil filter, I believe this is the pressure source, I'm not sure about the other end, hopefully Bill will chime in
Mark www.mphspecialties.com
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Bill
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:34 am

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by Bill »

Go to the ANZhonda600owners site in the photo section.
There are pictures of the cooler.  it bolts up and a remote filter holder is bolted to the under side of the battery tray.  No drilling into the case.  the center bolt for the original oil filter and cover are modified.  If you want to revert back to the original configuration it is very easy.
Bill
bobs600honda
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:17 am

Re: Honda 600 Motor Oil

Post by bobs600honda »

Hey Bill. I've been looking into the oil cooler idea. However, I cannot find the pictures you refer to. Also, could I get a link a parts need to complete such a project including a temp gauge (where on engine to measure oil temp)?
thanks for any info.
Bob
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "Bill" wrote:
> Go to the ANZhonda600owners site in the photo section. There are pictures
> of the cooler. it bolts up and a remote filter holder is bolted to the
> under side of the battery tray. No drilling into the case. the center bolt
> for the original oil filter and cover are modified. If you want to revert
> back to the original configuration it is very easy.
> Bill
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