Carburetor

[lyletrudell]

When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "fredk1026" wrote:
> I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[fredk1026]

Yes it will run with sum choke.

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "fredk1026" wrote:
> > I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[JOHN BURKHIMER]

wanted to pop in on this one.  Mine will barely idle, but when i add choke it will- what does that mean?
thanks
john b

--- On
Sun, 3/20/11, lyletrudell

wrote:
From: lyletrudell
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 9:31 PM
When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
Lyle
--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "fredk1026" wrote:
> I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[lyletrudell]

Hi John & Fred, that narrows your idle problems to fuel delivery.
When I got my coupe it also would not idle without a little choke.
I still have my Coupe totally apart so I don't know if my carb and engine rebuild has solved the problem.
So we all have a lean idle condition.
This could also be because the Honda was set to run very lean for emissions and fuel milage. Now that we have crappy fuel and worn leaking carbs the fuel ratio at idle could be very lean.
Things that could cause this:
* Vacuum leaks, hurt idle worse than high RPM.
* Low compression.
* Float level too low.
* Solenoid not working, or seat damaged.
* Carb passages dirty/restricted.
* Needles, jets, seats dirty or damaged.
* Carb O-rings, seals dried out or damaged (alcohol in fuel).
* Vacuum piston sticking or bore damaged.
There are other things, the Honda 600 experts can add to this.
I would rebuild and clean the carb first.
Use Viton O-rings(alcohol in fuel)I do have Viton O-rings left if you need them.
craft59@...
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, JOHN BURKHIMER wrote:
> wanted to pop in on this one.  Mine will barely idle, but when i add choke it will- what does that mean?
> thanks
> john b
> --- On Sun, 3/20/11, lyletrudell wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 9:31 PM
> When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "fredk1026" wrote:
> > I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[Mike McGregor]

I don't think it's likely the coil itself would give a weak spark, but if your alternator isn't putting out a charge, and your battery gets low, then you won't get much spark.  Also, if your point gap is too close, then you won't get a good spark at low rpm's, but you will at higher rpms.
Those are small possibillities though.  I think you're right to be looking for problems in the carb/fuel delivery area.

--- On
Sun, 3/20/11, fredk1026

wrote:
From: fredk1026
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Carburetor
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 4:18 PM
I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[Mike McGregor]

I always use my choke a little till it warms up, then it's fine.  Do you still need the choke on when you engine is warm?
If you still need the choke on a warmed up engine, then your carb either isn't getting enough fuel or your engine is getting too much air through a vacuum leak or something.

--- On
Mon, 3/21/11, JOHN BURKHIMER

wrote:
From: JOHN BURKHIMER
Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 21, 2011, 5:35 AM
wanted to pop in on this one.  Mine will barely idle, but when i add choke it will- what does that mean?
thanks
john b
--- On
Sun, 3/20/11, lyletrudell

wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 9:31 PM
> When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , "fredk1026" wrote:
> > I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[brad fenn]

I had mentioned a possible dirty Idle circuit.But just thought of something I have seen on a 600 carb, The needle was to low in the piston.if I remember correctly,there is an o-ring where the needle fits into the carb piston, it shrinks and lets the needle drop down in the seat to far. Causing a lean condition at idle. That is one other possibility. Also it is possible that the cam timing is off a tooth. It is all a process of elimination    I heard a female service adviser at a Dealership I used to work for, tell a female customer why her cars emissions were too high and wouldn't pass inspection."It is like baking a cake, You put in all the correct ingredients, but if you put in the wrong amount, the cake wont came out right"
From:
Mike McGregor To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Mon, March 21, 2011 11:46:46 AM Subject:
Re: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
I always use my choke a little till it warms up, then it's fine.  Do you still need the choke on when you engine is warm?
If you still need the choke on a warmed up engine, then your carb either isn't getting enough fuel or your engine is getting too much air through a vacuum leak or something.

--- On
Mon, 3/21/11, JOHN BURKHIMER

wrote:
From: JOHN BURKHIMER
Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 21, 2011, 5:35 AM
wanted to pop in on this one.  Mine will barely idle, but when i add choke it will- what does that mean?
thanks
john b
--- On
Sun, 3/20/11, lyletrudell

wrote:
> From: lyletrudell
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 9:31 PM
> When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
> Lyle
> --- In
> anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> , "fredk1026" wrote:
> > I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[lyletrudell]

Brad good point about the o-ring. On our older motorcycles we would shim the needles so it would lift the needle farther out of the seat and richen up the mixture.
Lots of things could be adding to a poor idle.
It "seems" like the carb is the problem, but.....
We could come up with a list of things to do.
I always do the cheapest ones first.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Hi John & Fred, that narrows your idle problems to fuel delivery.
> When I got my coupe it also would not idle without a little choke.
> I still have my Coupe totally apart so I don't know if my carb and engine rebuild has solved the problem.
> So we all have a lean idle condition.
> This could also be because the Honda was set to run very lean for emissions and fuel milage. Now that we have crappy fuel and worn leaking carbs the fuel ratio at idle could be very lean.
> Things that could cause this:
> * Vacuum leaks, hurt idle worse than high RPM.
> * Low compression.
> * Float level too low.
> * Solenoid not working, or seat damaged.
> * Carb passages dirty/restricted.
> * Needles, jets, seats dirty or damaged.
> * Carb O-rings, seals dried out or damaged (alcohol in fuel).
> * Vacuum piston sticking or bore damaged.
> There are other things, the Honda 600 experts can add to this.
> I would rebuild and clean the carb first.
> Use Viton O-rings(alcohol in fuel)I do have Viton O-rings left if you need them.
> craft59@...
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, JOHN BURKHIMER wrote:
> > wanted to pop in on this one.  Mine will barely idle, but when i add choke it will- what does that mean?
> > thanks
> > john b
> > --- On Sun, 3/20/11, lyletrudell wrote:
> > From: lyletrudell
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 9:31 PM
> > When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "fredk1026" wrote:
> > > I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[brad fenn]

Also something I have run into is what I believe is an issue with the ethanol in the fuel. It appears to cause a slight lean run issue with the older cars. I am constantly increasing the idle jet size on the old VWs to get a good idle on them.And I do lots of work on SU carbs on MGs and Datsun Z cars,not to mention have been doing motorcycle carbs lately. But can defiantly say the ethanol is really becoming a real problem. We are at E10 right now,and they are talking about E15 coming soon.
From:
lyletrudell To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Mon, March 21, 2011 4:49:13 PM Subject:
[anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
Brad good point about the o-ring. On our older motorcycles we would shim the needles so it would lift the needle farther out of the seat and richen up the mixture.
Lots of things could be adding to a poor idle.
It "seems" like the carb is the problem, but.....
We could come up with a list of things to do.
I always do the cheapest ones first.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> Hi John & Fred, that narrows your idle problems to fuel delivery.
> When I got my coupe it also would not idle without a little choke.
> I still have my Coupe totally apart so I don't know if my carb and engine rebuild has solved the problem.
> So we all have a lean idle condition.
> This could also be because the Honda was
set to run very lean for emissions and fuel milage. Now that we have crappy fuel and worn leaking carbs the fuel ratio at idle could be very lean.
> Things that could cause this:
> * Vacuum leaks, hurt idle worse than high RPM.
> * Low compression.
> * Float level too low.
> * Solenoid not working, or seat damaged.
> * Carb passages dirty/restricted.
> * Needles, jets, seats dirty or damaged.
> * Carb O-rings, seals dried out or damaged (alcohol in fuel).
> * Vacuum piston sticking or bore damaged.
> There are other things, the Honda 600 experts can add to this.
> I would rebuild and clean the carb first.
> Use Viton O-rings(alcohol in fuel)I do have Viton O-rings left if you need them.
> craft59@...
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, JOHN BURKHIMER wrote:
> > wanted to pop in on this one.�  Mine will barely idle, but� when i add choke it will- what does that mean?
> > thanks
> > john b
> > --- On Sun, 3/20/11, lyletrudell wrote:
> > From: lyletrudell
> > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
> > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 9:31 PM
> > �
> > When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
> Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "fredk1026" wrote:
> > > I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"

[lyletrudell]

Brad, that is an interesting thought!
From what I have read, alcohol has less BTU's per volume than gas.
So that would cause a leaner condition, not good for the engine.
With fuel injection that won't be an issue.
But, carbs would require larger main jet's.
Engines with a CV type carb, like the Honda 600, my 1959 Triumph and old motorcycles should run a higher needle setting.
Interesting.
I will check A/F ratio when I get my Honda back on the road.
Lyle

--- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, brad fenn wrote:
> Also something I have run into is what I believe is an issue with the ethanol in
> the fuel. It appears to cause a slight lean run issue with the older cars. I am
> constantly increasing the idle jet size on the old VWs to get a good idle on
> them.And I do lots of work on SU carbs on MGs and Datsun Z cars,not to mention
> have been doing motorcycle carbs lately. But can defiantly say the ethanol is
> really becoming a real problem. We are at E10 right now,and they are talking
> about E15 coming soon.
> From: lyletrudell
> To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 4:49:13 PM
> Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
> Brad good point about the o-ring. On our older motorcycles we would shim the
> needles so it would lift the needle farther out of the seat and richen up the
> mixture.
> Lots of things could be adding to a poor idle.
> It "seems" like the carb is the problem, but.....
> We could come up with a list of things to do.
> I always do the cheapest ones first.
> Lyle
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "lyletrudell" wrote:
> > Hi John & Fred, that narrows your idle problems to fuel delivery.
> > When I got my coupe it also would not idle without a little choke.
> > I still have my Coupe totally apart so I don't know if my carb and engine
> >rebuild has solved the problem.
> > So we all have a lean idle condition.
> > This could also be because the Honda was set to run very lean for emissions and
> >fuel milage. Now that we have crappy fuel and worn leaking carbs the fuel ratio
> >at idle could be very lean.
> > Things that could cause this:
> > * Vacuum leaks, hurt idle worse than high RPM.
> > * Low compression.
> > * Float level too low.
> > * Solenoid not working, or seat damaged.
> > * Carb passages dirty/restricted.
> > * Needles, jets, seats dirty or damaged.
> > * Carb O-rings, seals dried out or damaged (alcohol in fuel).
> > * Vacuum piston sticking or bore damaged.
> > There are other things, the Honda 600 experts can add to this.
> > I would rebuild and clean the carb first.
> > Use Viton O-rings(alcohol in fuel)I do have Viton O-rings left if you need
> >them.
> > craft59@
> > Lyle
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, JOHN BURKHIMER wrote:
> > > wanted to pop in on this one.  Mine will barely idle, but when i add choke
> >it will- what does that mean?
> > > thanks
> > > john b
> > > --- On Sun, 3/20/11, lyletrudell wrote:
> > > From: lyletrudell
> > > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] Re: Carburetor
> > > To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 9:31 PM
> > > Â
> > > When the engine is warmed, will it idle when the you add some choke?
> > > Lyle
> > > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "fredk1026" wrote:
> > > > I have check the compression and it is 140 psi on both sides. I assume that
> >is acceptable, since the stock compression is 156 psi I hope. Also the internal
> >fuel screen is clear, just a little bent. "Could the coil be giving weak spark?"