Richard;
The cam bearing/end caps do a remarkable job just as they are with out any modification.
Only when the oil pump fails do the bearing caps fail, not do to design but lack of lubrication.
On the steel center, tension rollers you talk about, see the attached pictures. Yes, a stretched cam chain creates more damage but it’s the stretched cam chain. It chews on everything and if the rollers are not changed when they too show ware they will allow more damage by the cam chain. But Honda didn’t use rubber rollers because it was cheaper, it’s because they work. As you can see in slides 2, 3 and 4 the cam chain does cause damage to the steel parts in the motor already. So why add another piece of metal for the cam chain to chew on 100% of the time.
I too have had over 40 Honda 600’s and have done considerable testing with different materials, for gaskets, rollers, slippers, dampeners to name a few, even to building a test motor to test parts I and others have made. Many have failed which caused changes so other parts could pass testing. Remember WD40 got its name from 39 failures.
But why in 1977 when thousands of Honda 600’s were still on the road, didn’t Honda use steel rollers or even a steel slipper? Because maybe with their vast R & D center they found that the cam chain with its ravenous attitude it would be better to use rubber covered rollers and slipper allowing some disposable rubber to fall into the systems oil than metal chips and do the job better.
Just my knowledgeable opinion.
Bill
Re: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus
Re: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus
Richard;
I went to the page posted here and at one point, I too felt this would be a alternative to aluminum bearings Honda used in the N600 engines. But a very smart machinist, who not only owned his own machine shop but taught at the San Diego Southwest Community Collage, walked me through a number of obstacles this would present. Because the N600 engine supports a mechanical advance assembly on the right side of the cam that end’s size would have to maintain its dimensions allowing for the drive pin to connect with the base of that assembly and retain its oil seal. To which we couldn’t find a roller bearing to fit without adding to the shaft’s OD and machining to fit. Then the bearing cap on both ends would have to be modified to fit the bearing and he didn’t think there was sufficient meat to hold the bearing housing/race. The opposite end had similar problems as the timing notch also had to be filled, machined and cap modified. A costly option, for sure but like anything custom – throw enough money at it and things can be done. So here Richard is correct, it can be done, but is it needed?
Richard also mentioned that I have some clear rollers; these are in testing and will be for some time. Using a used cam chain (so it would equal some of the ware properties of an engine with around 50K miles on it) to more quickly attain its chewing affects during testing, several 20 minute runs have been completed and these rollers and slipper have so far proved effective. But more tests need to be done.
I might also add that Miles Chappell has done some parts manufacturing and modifications him self and moderates the 2cylinderhonda yahoo group. And, knows these small engines very well.
Bill
I went to the page posted here and at one point, I too felt this would be a alternative to aluminum bearings Honda used in the N600 engines. But a very smart machinist, who not only owned his own machine shop but taught at the San Diego Southwest Community Collage, walked me through a number of obstacles this would present. Because the N600 engine supports a mechanical advance assembly on the right side of the cam that end’s size would have to maintain its dimensions allowing for the drive pin to connect with the base of that assembly and retain its oil seal. To which we couldn’t find a roller bearing to fit without adding to the shaft’s OD and machining to fit. Then the bearing cap on both ends would have to be modified to fit the bearing and he didn’t think there was sufficient meat to hold the bearing housing/race. The opposite end had similar problems as the timing notch also had to be filled, machined and cap modified. A costly option, for sure but like anything custom – throw enough money at it and things can be done. So here Richard is correct, it can be done, but is it needed?
Richard also mentioned that I have some clear rollers; these are in testing and will be for some time. Using a used cam chain (so it would equal some of the ware properties of an engine with around 50K miles on it) to more quickly attain its chewing affects during testing, several 20 minute runs have been completed and these rollers and slipper have so far proved effective. But more tests need to be done.
I might also add that Miles Chappell has done some parts manufacturing and modifications him self and moderates the 2cylinderhonda yahoo group. And, knows these small engines very well.
Bill
Re: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus
Fortunately, I have what amounts to a full machine shop. I have a 4 axis CNC mill, a large lathe, a smaller lathe and all the different welders available. So while Im out a ton of money for the shop, I am basically out only the cost of the bearings and whatever raw stock I need.
Yep, theres not much meat left after the bearing is pressed on. (I have both 28 mm and 32mm od bearings). I am willing to try the 32s as the Honda MC guys (the link) are using a bearing that ends up with not much bearing mounting area.
I think or hope that anyone thats wanting this type of item is a performance oriented type person. That said, I am never going to be able to warranty my parts beyond their replacement.
I am rather proud that I have made the steering rack bushings kit available once again. And I have sold quite a few so far. Hopefully, I will be able to keep making more and more parts.
Currently, I have just gotten material to make casting molds. I want to cast the lens cover that is used in the coupes overhead console.
(Anyone have one that wont fall apart for sale?) Richard
Yep, theres not much meat left after the bearing is pressed on. (I have both 28 mm and 32mm od bearings). I am willing to try the 32s as the Honda MC guys (the link) are using a bearing that ends up with not much bearing mounting area.
I think or hope that anyone thats wanting this type of item is a performance oriented type person. That said, I am never going to be able to warranty my parts beyond their replacement.
I am rather proud that I have made the steering rack bushings kit available once again. And I have sold quite a few so far. Hopefully, I will be able to keep making more and more parts.
Currently, I have just gotten material to make casting molds. I want to cast the lens cover that is used in the coupes overhead console.
(Anyone have one that wont fall apart for sale?) Richard
-
Steven Cunz
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:05 am
Re: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus
I have a N600 with a new/ Rebuilt Steering rack and many other rebuilt parts RE chromed bumpers etc. My plan is to molest the car with a mid engine design using a hayabusa
Engine . The current engine ran well as of a year ago with video evidence . I am willing to sell the car for a FAIR price numbers matching or the parts I won't need IE engine I've offered the car before however fair to some seems to mean almost free! The chroming alone was 1200.00 I would be willing to sell the car with everything for 2500 firm I can deliver for a reasonable rate ,again, free isn't reasonable. The project will begin this spring so that's when the chopping begins . The only thing missing right now that I'm aware is the windshield it got broke .
So there it is I don't love these things but I know many of you do so I thought I would offer it up before I molest it.
Sent from my Verizon HTC Smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Richard Morris tgm_enterprizes@... [anzhonda600owners]"
To: "anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com"
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus other mods.
Date: Mon, Feb 4, 2019 17:59
Fortunately, I have what amounts to a full machine shop. I have a 4 axis CNC mill, a large lathe, a smaller lathe and all the different welders available. So while Im out a ton of money for the shop, I am basically out only the cost of the bearings and whatever raw stock I need.
Yep, theres not much meat left after the bearing is pressed on. (I have both 28 mm and 32mm od bearings). I am willing to try the 32s as the Honda MC guys (the link) are using a bearing that ends up with not much bearing mounting area.
I think or hope that anyone thats wanting this type of item is a performance oriented type person. That said, I am never going to be able to warranty my parts beyond their replacement.
I am rather proud that I have made the steering rack bushings kit available once again. And I have sold quite a few so far. Hopefully, I will be able to keep making more and more parts.
Currently, I have just gotten material to make casting molds. I want to cast the lens cover that is used in the coupes overhead console.
(Anyone have one that wont fall apart for sale?)
Richard
Engine . The current engine ran well as of a year ago with video evidence . I am willing to sell the car for a FAIR price numbers matching or the parts I won't need IE engine I've offered the car before however fair to some seems to mean almost free! The chroming alone was 1200.00 I would be willing to sell the car with everything for 2500 firm I can deliver for a reasonable rate ,again, free isn't reasonable. The project will begin this spring so that's when the chopping begins . The only thing missing right now that I'm aware is the windshield it got broke .
So there it is I don't love these things but I know many of you do so I thought I would offer it up before I molest it.
Sent from my Verizon HTC Smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Richard Morris tgm_enterprizes@... [anzhonda600owners]"
To: "anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com"
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus other mods.
Date: Mon, Feb 4, 2019 17:59
Fortunately, I have what amounts to a full machine shop. I have a 4 axis CNC mill, a large lathe, a smaller lathe and all the different welders available. So while Im out a ton of money for the shop, I am basically out only the cost of the bearings and whatever raw stock I need.
Yep, theres not much meat left after the bearing is pressed on. (I have both 28 mm and 32mm od bearings). I am willing to try the 32s as the Honda MC guys (the link) are using a bearing that ends up with not much bearing mounting area.
I think or hope that anyone thats wanting this type of item is a performance oriented type person. That said, I am never going to be able to warranty my parts beyond their replacement.
I am rather proud that I have made the steering rack bushings kit available once again. And I have sold quite a few so far. Hopefully, I will be able to keep making more and more parts.
Currently, I have just gotten material to make casting molds. I want to cast the lens cover that is used in the coupes overhead console.
(Anyone have one that wont fall apart for sale?)
Richard
-
Thomas Allen
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:34 am
Re: [EXT] Re: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performan
Do you have any pictures? Where you live?
Thanks,
Best Regards,
TEA
Thomas Allen
Inventory Control/Supply Chain
Henkel US Operations Corporation
Henkel Adhesive Technologies
20021 Susana Road
Rancho Dominguez, CA 90221
Office: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Fax: XXX-XXX-XXXX
thomas.allen@...
www.henkelna.com
From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Wednesday, February 6, 2019 6:19 AM
To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
[EXT] Re: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus other mods.
I have a N600 with a new/ Rebuilt Steering rack and many other rebuilt parts RE chromed bumpers etc. My plan is to molest the car with a mid engine design using a hayabusa
Engine . The current engine ran well as of a year ago with video evidence . I am willing to sell the car for a FAIR price numbers matching or the parts I won't need IE engine I've offered the car before however fair to some seems to mean almost free! The chroming alone was 1200.00 I would be willing to sell the car with everything for 2500 firm I can deliver for a reasonable rate ,again, free isn't reasonable. The project will begin this spring so that's when the chopping begins . The only thing missing right now that I'm aware is the windshield it got broke .
So there it is I don't love these things but I know many of you do so I thought I would offer it up before I molest it.
Sent from my Verizon HTC Smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Richard Morris tgm_enterprizes@...
[anzhonda600owners]" < anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
To: " anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com " < anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus other mods.
Date: Mon, Feb 4, 2019 17:59
Fortunately, I have what amounts to a full machine shop. I have a 4 axis CNC mill, a large lathe, a smaller lathe and all the different welders available. So while I’m out a ton of money for the shop, I am basically out only the cost of the bearings and whatever raw stock I need.
Yep, there’s not much meat left after the bearing is pressed on. (I have both 28 mm and 32mm od bearings). I am willing to try the 32’s as the Honda MC guys (the link) are using a bearing that ends up with not much bearing mounting area.
I think or hope that anyone that’s wanting this type of item is a performance oriented type person. That said, I am never going to be able to warranty my parts beyond their replacement.
I am rather proud that I have made the steering rack bushings kit available once again. And I have sold quite a few so far. Hopefully, I will be able to keep making more and more parts.
Currently, I have just gotten material to make casting molds. I want to cast the lens cover that is used in the coupes overhead console.
(Anyone have one that won’t fall apart for sale?)
Richard
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not use its contents for any purpose, advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments without retaining any copy.
Thanks,
Best Regards,
TEA
Thomas Allen
Inventory Control/Supply Chain
Henkel US Operations Corporation
Henkel Adhesive Technologies
20021 Susana Road
Rancho Dominguez, CA 90221
Office: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Fax: XXX-XXX-XXXX
thomas.allen@...
www.henkelna.com
From:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Wednesday, February 6, 2019 6:19 AM
To:
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
[EXT] Re: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus other mods.
I have a N600 with a new/ Rebuilt Steering rack and many other rebuilt parts RE chromed bumpers etc. My plan is to molest the car with a mid engine design using a hayabusa
Engine . The current engine ran well as of a year ago with video evidence . I am willing to sell the car for a FAIR price numbers matching or the parts I won't need IE engine I've offered the car before however fair to some seems to mean almost free! The chroming alone was 1200.00 I would be willing to sell the car with everything for 2500 firm I can deliver for a reasonable rate ,again, free isn't reasonable. The project will begin this spring so that's when the chopping begins . The only thing missing right now that I'm aware is the windshield it got broke .
So there it is I don't love these things but I know many of you do so I thought I would offer it up before I molest it.
Sent from my Verizon HTC Smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Richard Morris tgm_enterprizes@...
[anzhonda600owners]" < anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
To: " anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com " < anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [anzhonda600owners] RE: [2cylinderhondas] Hi performance cam bearing mod for 600's plus other mods.
Date: Mon, Feb 4, 2019 17:59
Fortunately, I have what amounts to a full machine shop. I have a 4 axis CNC mill, a large lathe, a smaller lathe and all the different welders available. So while I’m out a ton of money for the shop, I am basically out only the cost of the bearings and whatever raw stock I need.
Yep, there’s not much meat left after the bearing is pressed on. (I have both 28 mm and 32mm od bearings). I am willing to try the 32’s as the Honda MC guys (the link) are using a bearing that ends up with not much bearing mounting area.
I think or hope that anyone that’s wanting this type of item is a performance oriented type person. That said, I am never going to be able to warranty my parts beyond their replacement.
I am rather proud that I have made the steering rack bushings kit available once again. And I have sold quite a few so far. Hopefully, I will be able to keep making more and more parts.
Currently, I have just gotten material to make casting molds. I want to cast the lens cover that is used in the coupes overhead console.
(Anyone have one that won’t fall apart for sale?)
Richard
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not use its contents for any purpose, advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments without retaining any copy.