Re: [2cylinderhondas] How far would you drive your 600 to a show?

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:26 am

I too used to run a 20W50 grade of oil, and Torco for engines using the same oil for the engine and trans seemed like the correct choice.
http://www.torcousa.com/
But, 30W5 grade seems ok because I am driving them less and the oil viscosity is thinner and gets to lubricate the places it needs to faster. There are engine oils out their now with viscosities in the Zero grade, and doing that makes them lubricate better, I started looking at oil coolers as all the Honda 600 engines I tore down had tar on the inside case, not the cylinders but the crank case / transmission case.
So the fan cooled the cylinders enough or the oil never stayed there long enough, but the oil in the crank case/transmission area were some times caked with a tar like substance.
Which happens with oil that is over heated.
Could this have been because the engine was failing anyway?
Maybe, but all of them?
So I made an oil cooler system that allowed me to monitor the oil pressure, temperature and every 10K miles I tore the engine down and measured critical areas like the pistons/rings, cam chain, cam, oil pump and oil pump rod/piston, all parts of the transmission and bearings.
What I found after 40K miles and 4 teardowns that with the cooler there was no tar, everything measured in Honda spec or showed no appreciable wear over the 40K I had driven it.
And, this was a daily driver in the 1990’s.
I stopped doing the tests because I sold the car.
But I still run my Sedan which has had an oil cooler in it since the early 1990’s and has not had a problem.
So keeping your cars oil above the (tar creating range of heat) is paramount to keeping it running well.
B ill

Harry Lineback · Post by **Harry Lineback** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:17 pm

Bill as usual great information
Harry Lineback XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
On Thursday, September 11, 2014 10:26 AM, "'Bill' billmyong@...
[anzhonda600owners]" wrote:
I too used to run a 20W50 grade of oil, and Torco for engines using the same oil for the engine and trans seemed like the correct choice.
http://www.torcousa.com/
But, 30W5 grade seems ok because I am driving them less and the oil viscosity is thinner and gets to lubricate the places it needs to faster. There are engine oils out their now with viscosities in the Zero grade, and doing that makes them lubricate better, I started looking at oil coolers as all the Honda 600 engines I tore down had tar on the inside case, not the cylinders but the crank case / transmission case.
So the fan cooled the cylinders enough or the oil never stayed there long enough, but the oil in the crank case/transmission area were some times caked with a tar like substance.
Which happens with oil that is over heated.
Could this have been because the engine was failing anyway?
Maybe, but all of them?
So I made an oil cooler system that allowed me to monitor the oil pressure, temperature and every 10K miles I tore the engine down and measured critical areas like the pistons/rings, cam chain, cam, oil pump and oil pump rod/piston, all parts of the transmission and bearings.
What I found after 40K miles and 4 teardowns that with the cooler there was no tar, everything measured in Honda spec or showed no appreciable wear over the 40K I had driven it.
And, this was a daily driver in the 1990s.
I stopped doing the tests because I sold the car.
But I still run my Sedan which has had an oil cooler in it since the early 1990s and has not had a problem.
So keeping your cars oil above the (tar creating range of heat) is paramount to keeping it running well.
B ill

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:36 pm

Hi Harry;
Yep, about the 10th time I have told this story and I think there are a few doing it. So maybe it will be worth it.
Take care
Bill

lyletrudell · Post by **lyletrudell** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:34 pm

Hey Bill, I respect your mechanical ability and you have helped me a lot with my 600 Coupe. I have to disagree with your oil choice. No air cooled modern motorcycle engines run low viscosity oils. True modern water cooled auto engines do. But they have very tight fit tolerances, use better materials and use roller cam/valve systems. They can use low viscosity oils with no ZDDP. Our vintage Honda engine is air cooled, has very loose tolerances, roller and ball bearings and a flat tappet valve system. We need a thicker oil and ZDDP. I use 20w-50 motorcycle oil. Mobile 1 or Amsoil. Look up ZDDP, air cooled engines, vintage motorcycles, flat tappet cams. Lots of good info. My 2 cents. Lyle

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:30 pm

Hi Lyle;
Much appreciate the feed back. And, I agree that on a vehicle used daily the thicker 20W50 oils are better. But, if you don't drive your vehicle but twice a month or less, then thinner viscosity oil is preferred, even with our tolerances. If you read the factory oil requirements they are in the 10W30 range and for a reason.
Cooler climates require a thinner oil to lubricate the engine components during cooler weather.
Our vehicles (you in Florida and me in San Diego) run in a warmer weather condition so the thinner oils are not needed.
But after setting for several weeks leak down of lubricating fluids leaves our engines in an almost dry start up mode.
Which can cause more damage.
Even present day oil requirements state that if your trips are short and mostly in town then oil changes should be more frequent.
So, depending on the use of your Honda 600 there is and should be different oil viscosity requirements.
And as ZDDP mainly relates to over head valve/cam trains using tappets there are some good qualities associated with ZDDP (see the following URL)
http://classiccars.about.com/od/mainten ... ditive.htm
But as the article states to much can cause more wear, and the Honda 600 engine has no tappets, rather the same qualities of a roller cam unless your rockers are out of adjustment.
Just my cut…
Bill