leaking master cylinder
-
John Mills
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:59 am
Re: leaking master cylinder
OK so what does Bruce say about his stuff
-
Eric Geiger
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:38 am
Re: leaking master cylinder
I have gotten one answer from him so far asking if the system was building any pressure at all and answered with the following.
"It does build some pressure yes but it would always leak before we got more than probably 7-8 cycles into bleeding.
I would have the person in the car pump the brakes with the entire system closed 3 times then hold the pedal down, I would crack the bleeder on the rear wheel cylindet and release any pressure then repeat (pumping 3 times then holding the pedal down).
Crack and release pressure, pump x3/bleed, pumpx3/bleed. Each time a very small ammt. of air an fluid would come through into the bleeder bottle never a steady stream of just fluid. After about 6-8 times back and forth we would check the floor board and noticed brake fluid on it. Not a ton but a few lines where you could see it dripped down where the master cylinder enters into the car and the main pin meets from the pedal to the cylinder (there is no carpet in the car so it's easy to see) we would then stop because of this.
Each time I took the master cylinder back out, when cracking the main lines from the master cylinder there would be pressure built up and when I would crack the lines it would bubble/spray a little out until the pressure was relieved.
I would open up the master each time and check all the seals on the piston and reassemble and try again with the same results."
Eric J. Geiger
---------------------------------------
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
"It does build some pressure yes but it would always leak before we got more than probably 7-8 cycles into bleeding.
I would have the person in the car pump the brakes with the entire system closed 3 times then hold the pedal down, I would crack the bleeder on the rear wheel cylindet and release any pressure then repeat (pumping 3 times then holding the pedal down).
Crack and release pressure, pump x3/bleed, pumpx3/bleed. Each time a very small ammt. of air an fluid would come through into the bleeder bottle never a steady stream of just fluid. After about 6-8 times back and forth we would check the floor board and noticed brake fluid on it. Not a ton but a few lines where you could see it dripped down where the master cylinder enters into the car and the main pin meets from the pedal to the cylinder (there is no carpet in the car so it's easy to see) we would then stop because of this.
Each time I took the master cylinder back out, when cracking the main lines from the master cylinder there would be pressure built up and when I would crack the lines it would bubble/spray a little out until the pressure was relieved.
I would open up the master each time and check all the seals on the piston and reassemble and try again with the same results."
Eric J. Geiger
---------------------------------------
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:19 AM, "John Mills" wrote:
OK so what does Bruce say about his stuff
-
John Mills
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:59 am
Re: leaking master cylinder
I am curious if the tiny bleed back holes ( two of them ) are open. only because you shouldn't have much if any pressure left in the line. nothing to do with your leaking problem though
-
Eric Geiger
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:38 am
Re: leaking master cylinder
Thanks for your help I'm gonna send it off to miles I think tomorrow and try and Install a different 3/4 master I have from another car to atleast get on the road and buy a little more time.
Eric J. Geiger
---------------------------------------
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
Eric J. Geiger
---------------------------------------
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:31 AM, "John Mills" wrote:
I am curious if the tiny bleed back holes ( two of them ) are open. only because you shouldn't have much if any pressure left in the line. nothing to do with your leaking problem though
-
Nan Leiter
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:13 am
Re: leaking master cylinder
HI Eric,
I feel a little silly asking you this question but I am a new, novice owner of a '72 600 sedan.� What is the best oil and gas to use?� should I be using a high octane gas?� What weight oil is best?
Thanks.
Nan
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> �
> I am curious if the tiny bleed back holes ( two of them ) are open. only because you shouldn't have much if any pressure left in the line.� nothing to do with your leaking problem though
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Geiger egeiger@...
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:24 am
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> �
> I have gotten one answer from him so far asking if the system was building any pressure at all and answered with the following.
> "It does build some pressure yes but it would always leak before we got more than probably 7-8 cycles into bleeding.
> I would have the person in the car pump the brakes with the entire system closed 3 times then hold the pedal down, I would crack the bleeder on the rear wheel cylindet and release any pressure then repeat (pumping 3 times then holding the pedal down).
> Crack and release pressure, �pump x3/bleed, pumpx3/bleed. Each time a very small ammt. of air an fluid would come through into the bleeder bottle never a steady stream of just fluid. After about 6-8 times back and forth we would check the floor board and noticed > brake fluid on it. �Not a ton but a few lines where you could see it dripped down where the master cylinder enters into the car and the main pin meets from the pedal to the cylinder (there is no carpet in the car so it's easy to see) we would then stop because > of this.�
> Each time I took the master cylinder back out, when cracking the main lines from the master cylinder there would be pressure built up and when I would crack the lines it would bubble/spray a little out until the pressure was relieved.
> I would open up the master each time and check all the seals on the piston and reassemble and try again with the same results."
> Eric J. Geiger
> ---------------------------------------
> PRG Nocturne
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> phone
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> fax
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> mobile
> egeiger@...
> www.prgnocturne.com
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:19 AM, "John Mills" jbmkwaj@...
> > wrote:
> > �
> > OK so what does Bruce say about his stuff
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Geiger > egeiger@...
> > To: > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: anzhonda600owners > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:08 am
> > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > �
> > Everything was purchased through Bruce online at
> > honda600carparts.com
> > .
> > The kit came with 2 new check valves but both were identical. �I used my plastic washer from the original cylinder along with the new springs supplied for one and a supplied metal washer for the other.�
> > It will build pressure but always would leak before enough would build causing us to stop bleeding the system and pull the master back out.�
> > I've been in contact with Bruce�
> > Eric J. Geiger
> > ---------------------------------------
> > PRG Nocturne
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > phone
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > fax
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > mobile
> > egeiger@...
> > www.prgnocturne.com
> > On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:00 AM, "
> > billmyong@...
> > " > billmyong@...
> > > wrote:
> > > �
> > > Eric;
> > > �
> > > Who did the brass sleeving?
> > > �
> > > And, you can do a bench bleed to see if the master is working just by attaching the reservoir to the master and holding your fingers over the outlets.� I'm not aware of more than > > > one piston set�for the 13/16 master, but the 3/4 master has three different end pistons and without the correct width for the seal there can be all kinds of problems.�
> > > �
> > > I normally clean the cylinders with lacquer thinner after cleaning and then lube the seals with brake cylinder assembly lube.� Also cleaning all the lines with denatured alcohol > > > will protect everything from contamination.�
> > > �
> > > I have gotten seals from different sources and what Miles sells is the best bet.�� You also have to understand that check valve for the rear has larger and fewer holes that the > > > front check valve.� Also one has a rubber spacer and the other a metal washer.� Because the seal has to seal around the piston and the cylinder there are all kinds of issues even causing them to be cut on a sharp non-flush brass sleeve or bleed back hole not > > > de-burred > > > .� Clean is all important with brakes but bad parts or good part being sold by some one who does not do their home work can be just as devastating.
> > > �
> > > �
> > > Bill
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From:
> > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > [
> > > > mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > ]
> > > > On Behalf Of
> > > > Eric Geiger
> > > > Sent:
> > > > Monday, July 02, 2012 9:14 PM
> > > > To:
> > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject:
> > > > Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > �
> > > > ya ill be getting ahold of miles again in the morning. �need to get this car on the road by the weekend.
> > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > �phone
> > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > �fax
> > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > �mobile
> > > > egeiger@...
> > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 11:11 PM, John Mills wrote:
> > > > > �
> > > > > The last seal kit I got was from Miles, I don't know the details on how he puts the kits together or what they might be originally made for
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Eric Geiger > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > To: > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:07 pm
> > > > > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > �
> > > > > Yes for 2 out of the 4 seals you unscrew it. 1 is on the very end and The very last seal though has to be pulled over the larger portion of the piston
> > > > > This is how mine was atleast. The books I have online didn't add much help.
> > > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > > ---------------------------------------
> > > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > phone
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > fax
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > mobile
> > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:33 PM, "John Mills" > > > > jbmkwaj@...
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > �
> > > > > > I have successfully rebuilt these, I do so many different types of vehicles I don't quite remember how the piston is on these. Isn't there a screw in the center of the > > > > > > piston you need to remove to dissasemble the piston. My books are in the garage - I'll look it up tomorrow.
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Eric Geiger > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > To: > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:25 pm
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > > �
> > > > > > i have to get ahold of the owner of the 600carparts website and see what he says. � i cant figure it out for the life of me. ��
> > > > > > has anyone rebuilt one of these themselves???
> > > > > > For the last seal (closest to the firewall/brake pedal) how did you get the seal over the enlarged part of the piston??? �did you just soak it in brake fluid and stretch it carefully? �or is there a special way to do this. �thats the only thing i can possibly > > > > > > think of. ��
> > > > > > When i first rebuilt it i left the last seal on as the original because i was unsure of how to get it over the larger portion of the piston. �after installation and during the brake bleeding process when it started leaking i took it apart again and decided > > > > > > to take the old seal off and put the new one on. �the old seal broke while trying to removing it and stretching it to get it over the piston and then i carefully stretched the new (brake fluid soaked) seal over the piston making sure not to damage it. it still > > > > > > leaked when i bled the brakes again. �i took it apart 2 more times and checked the direction of all the seals against an old 3/4 master i had laying around and the directions all match. �when putting it back together i made sure none of the seals folded over > > > > > > onto themselves but still the same result.
> > > > > > very frustrating!!
> > > > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > �phone
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > �fax
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > �mobile
> > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:07 PM, John Mills wrote:
> > > > > > > �
> > > > > > > Eric, if the seal closest to the driver is good, installed in the correct direction and the bore is good, is it possible the brass liner has been misinstalled??
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: eric.geiger > > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > > To: anzhonda600owners > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16 pm
> > > > > > > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > > > �
> > > > > > > I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
> > > > > > > i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from
> > > > > > > http://www.honda600carparts.com/
> > > > > > > i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
> > > > > > > i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
> > > > > > > short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
> > > > > > > i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
> > > > > > > PLEASE HELP!!
[/quote]
I feel a little silly asking you this question but I am a new, novice owner of a '72 600 sedan.� What is the best oil and gas to use?� should I be using a high octane gas?� What weight oil is best?
Thanks.
Nan
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Eric Geiger wrote:
> �
> I am curious if the tiny bleed back holes ( two of them ) are open. only because you shouldn't have much if any pressure left in the line.� nothing to do with your leaking problem though
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Geiger egeiger@...
> To: anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:24 am
> Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> �
> I have gotten one answer from him so far asking if the system was building any pressure at all and answered with the following.
> "It does build some pressure yes but it would always leak before we got more than probably 7-8 cycles into bleeding.
> I would have the person in the car pump the brakes with the entire system closed 3 times then hold the pedal down, I would crack the bleeder on the rear wheel cylindet and release any pressure then repeat (pumping 3 times then holding the pedal down).
> Crack and release pressure, �pump x3/bleed, pumpx3/bleed. Each time a very small ammt. of air an fluid would come through into the bleeder bottle never a steady stream of just fluid. After about 6-8 times back and forth we would check the floor board and noticed > brake fluid on it. �Not a ton but a few lines where you could see it dripped down where the master cylinder enters into the car and the main pin meets from the pedal to the cylinder (there is no carpet in the car so it's easy to see) we would then stop because > of this.�
> Each time I took the master cylinder back out, when cracking the main lines from the master cylinder there would be pressure built up and when I would crack the lines it would bubble/spray a little out until the pressure was relieved.
> I would open up the master each time and check all the seals on the piston and reassemble and try again with the same results."
> Eric J. Geiger
> ---------------------------------------
> PRG Nocturne
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> phone
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> fax
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> mobile
> egeiger@...
> www.prgnocturne.com
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:19 AM, "John Mills" jbmkwaj@...
> > wrote:
> > �
> > OK so what does Bruce say about his stuff
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Geiger > egeiger@...
> > To: > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: anzhonda600owners > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:08 am
> > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > �
> > Everything was purchased through Bruce online at
> > honda600carparts.com
> > .
> > The kit came with 2 new check valves but both were identical. �I used my plastic washer from the original cylinder along with the new springs supplied for one and a supplied metal washer for the other.�
> > It will build pressure but always would leak before enough would build causing us to stop bleeding the system and pull the master back out.�
> > I've been in contact with Bruce�
> > Eric J. Geiger
> > ---------------------------------------
> > PRG Nocturne
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > phone
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > fax
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > mobile
> > egeiger@...
> > www.prgnocturne.com
> > On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:00 AM, "
> > billmyong@...
> > " > billmyong@...
> > > wrote:
> > > �
> > > Eric;
> > > �
> > > Who did the brass sleeving?
> > > �
> > > And, you can do a bench bleed to see if the master is working just by attaching the reservoir to the master and holding your fingers over the outlets.� I'm not aware of more than > > > one piston set�for the 13/16 master, but the 3/4 master has three different end pistons and without the correct width for the seal there can be all kinds of problems.�
> > > �
> > > I normally clean the cylinders with lacquer thinner after cleaning and then lube the seals with brake cylinder assembly lube.� Also cleaning all the lines with denatured alcohol > > > will protect everything from contamination.�
> > > �
> > > I have gotten seals from different sources and what Miles sells is the best bet.�� You also have to understand that check valve for the rear has larger and fewer holes that the > > > front check valve.� Also one has a rubber spacer and the other a metal washer.� Because the seal has to seal around the piston and the cylinder there are all kinds of issues even causing them to be cut on a sharp non-flush brass sleeve or bleed back hole not > > > de-burred > > > .� Clean is all important with brakes but bad parts or good part being sold by some one who does not do their home work can be just as devastating.
> > > �
> > > �
> > > Bill
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > �
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From:
> > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > [
> > > > mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > ]
> > > > On Behalf Of
> > > > Eric Geiger
> > > > Sent:
> > > > Monday, July 02, 2012 9:14 PM
> > > > To:
> > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject:
> > > > Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > �
> > > > ya ill be getting ahold of miles again in the morning. �need to get this car on the road by the weekend.
> > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > �phone
> > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > �fax
> > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > �mobile
> > > > egeiger@...
> > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 11:11 PM, John Mills wrote:
> > > > > �
> > > > > The last seal kit I got was from Miles, I don't know the details on how he puts the kits together or what they might be originally made for
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Eric Geiger > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > To: > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:07 pm
> > > > > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > �
> > > > > Yes for 2 out of the 4 seals you unscrew it. 1 is on the very end and The very last seal though has to be pulled over the larger portion of the piston
> > > > > This is how mine was atleast. The books I have online didn't add much help.
> > > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > > ---------------------------------------
> > > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > phone
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > fax
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > mobile
> > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:33 PM, "John Mills" > > > > jbmkwaj@...
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > �
> > > > > > I have successfully rebuilt these, I do so many different types of vehicles I don't quite remember how the piston is on these. Isn't there a screw in the center of the > > > > > > piston you need to remove to dissasemble the piston. My books are in the garage - I'll look it up tomorrow.
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Eric Geiger > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > To: > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:25 pm
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > > �
> > > > > > i have to get ahold of the owner of the 600carparts website and see what he says. � i cant figure it out for the life of me. ��
> > > > > > has anyone rebuilt one of these themselves???
> > > > > > For the last seal (closest to the firewall/brake pedal) how did you get the seal over the enlarged part of the piston??? �did you just soak it in brake fluid and stretch it carefully? �or is there a special way to do this. �thats the only thing i can possibly > > > > > > think of. ��
> > > > > > When i first rebuilt it i left the last seal on as the original because i was unsure of how to get it over the larger portion of the piston. �after installation and during the brake bleeding process when it started leaking i took it apart again and decided > > > > > > to take the old seal off and put the new one on. �the old seal broke while trying to removing it and stretching it to get it over the piston and then i carefully stretched the new (brake fluid soaked) seal over the piston making sure not to damage it. it still > > > > > > leaked when i bled the brakes again. �i took it apart 2 more times and checked the direction of all the seals against an old 3/4 master i had laying around and the directions all match. �when putting it back together i made sure none of the seals folded over > > > > > > onto themselves but still the same result.
> > > > > > very frustrating!!
> > > > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > �phone
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > �fax
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > �mobile
> > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:07 PM, John Mills wrote:
> > > > > > > �
> > > > > > > Eric, if the seal closest to the driver is good, installed in the correct direction and the bore is good, is it possible the brass liner has been misinstalled??
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: eric.geiger > > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > > To: anzhonda600owners > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16 pm
> > > > > > > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > > > �
> > > > > > > I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
> > > > > > > i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from
> > > > > > > http://www.honda600carparts.com/
> > > > > > > i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
> > > > > > > i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
> > > > > > > short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
> > > > > > > i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
> > > > > > > PLEASE HELP!!
[/quote]
-
Eric Geiger
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:38 am
Re: leaking master cylinder
Worked on my z600 brakes some more last night.
Im hoping I may have found the issue. Both front hoses were completely frozen while the rears were fine. I'm hoping that since there was just so much pressure built up from the fluid not having any place to go that it was blowing back out the MC for that reason only. Took 2 lines from my other parts car until I can order new ones and am going to try again today.
On a side note I opened up the brake booster and cleaned it up nicely. It was in very good shape besides the fact that it looked like a coffee filter Inside of it. 30 years of sitting left alot of dried coffee grounds looking debris in it.
Fingers crossed!
Eric J. Geiger
---------------------------------------
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
Im hoping I may have found the issue. Both front hoses were completely frozen while the rears were fine. I'm hoping that since there was just so much pressure built up from the fluid not having any place to go that it was blowing back out the MC for that reason only. Took 2 lines from my other parts car until I can order new ones and am going to try again today.
On a side note I opened up the brake booster and cleaned it up nicely. It was in very good shape besides the fact that it looked like a coffee filter Inside of it. 30 years of sitting left alot of dried coffee grounds looking debris in it.
Fingers crossed!
Eric J. Geiger
---------------------------------------
PRG Nocturne
XXX-XXX-XXXX phone
XXX-XXX-XXXX fax
XXX-XXX-XXXX mobile
egeiger@...
www.prgnocturne.com
On Jul 6, 2012, at 12:13 PM, "Nan Leiter" wrote:
HI Eric,
I feel a little silly asking you this question but I am a new, novice owner of a '72 600 sedan. What is the best oil and gas to use? should I be using a high octane gas? What weight oil is best?
Thanks.
Nan
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Eric Geiger
Thanks for your help I'm gonna send it off to miles I think tomorrow and try and Install a different 3/4 master I have from another car to atleast get on the road and buy a little more time.
> Eric J. Geiger
> ---------------------------------------
> PRG Nocturne
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> phone
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> fax
> XXX-XXX-XXXX
> mobile
> egeiger@...
> www.prgnocturne.com
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:31 AM, "John Mills" jbmkwaj@...
> > wrote:
> > I am curious if the tiny bleed back holes ( two of them ) are open. only because you shouldn't have much if any pressure left in the line. nothing to do with your leaking problem though
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Geiger > egeiger@...
> > To: > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:24 am
> > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > I have gotten one answer from him so far asking if the system was building any pressure at all and answered with the following.
> > "It does build some pressure yes but it would always leak before we got more than probably 7-8 cycles into bleeding.
> > I would have the person in the car pump the brakes with the entire system closed 3 times then hold the pedal down, I would crack the bleeder on the rear wheel cylindet and release any pressure then repeat (pumping 3 times then holding the pedal down).
> > Crack and release pressure, pump x3/bleed, pumpx3/bleed. Each time a very small ammt. of air an fluid would come through into the bleeder bottle never a steady stream of just fluid. After about 6-8 times back and forth we would check the floor board and noticed > > brake fluid on it. Not a ton but a few lines where you could see it dripped down where the master cylinder enters into the car and the main pin meets from the pedal to the cylinder (there is no carpet in the car so it's easy to see) we would then stop because > > of this.
> > Each time I took the master cylinder back out, when cracking the main lines from the master cylinder there would be pressure built up and when I would crack the lines it would bubble/spray a little out until the pressure was relieved.
> > I would open up the master each time and check all the seals on the piston and reassemble and try again with the same results."
> > Eric J. Geiger
> > ---------------------------------------
> > PRG Nocturne
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > phone
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > fax
> > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > mobile
> > egeiger@...
> > www.prgnocturne.com
> > On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:19 AM, "John Mills" > jbmkwaj@...
> > > wrote:
> > > OK so what does Bruce say about his stuff
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eric Geiger > > egeiger@...
> > > To: > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > Cc: anzhonda600owners > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:08 am
> > > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > Everything was purchased through Bruce online at
> > > honda600carparts.com
> > > .
> > > The kit came with 2 new check valves but both were identical. I used my plastic washer from the original cylinder along with the new springs supplied for one and a supplied metal washer for the other.
> > > It will build pressure but always would leak before enough would build causing us to stop bleeding the system and pull the master back out.
> > > I've been in contact with Bruce
> > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > ---------------------------------------
> > > PRG Nocturne
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > phone
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > fax
> > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > mobile
> > > egeiger@...
> > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:00 AM, "
> > > billmyong@...
> > > " > > billmyong@...
> > > > wrote:
> > > > Eric;
> > > > Who did the brass sleeving?
> > > > And, you can do a bench bleed to see if the master is working just by attaching the reservoir to the master and holding your fingers over the outlets. I'm not aware of more than one piston set for the 13/16 master, > > > > but the 3/4 master has three different end pistons and without the correct width for the seal there can be all kinds of problems.
> > > > I normally clean the cylinders with lacquer thinner after cleaning and then lube the seals with brake cylinder assembly lube. Also cleaning all the lines with denatured alcohol will protect everything from contamination.
> > > > I have gotten seals from different sources and what Miles sells is the best bet. You also have to understand that check valve for the rear has larger and fewer holes that the front check valve. Also one has a > > > > rubber spacer and the other a metal washer. Because the seal has to seal around the piston and the cylinder there are all kinds of issues even causing them to be cut on a sharp non-flush brass sleeve or bleed back hole not de-burred > > > > .
> > > > Clean is all important with brakes but bad parts or good part being sold by some one who does not do their home work can be just as devastating.
> > > > Bill
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [
> > > > > mailto:anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > ]
> > > > > On Behalf Of
> > > > > Eric Geiger
> > > > > Sent:
> > > > > Monday, July 02, 2012 9:14 PM
> > > > > To:
> > > > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject:
> > > > > Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > ya ill be getting ahold of miles again in the morning. need to get this car on the road by the weekend.
> > > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > phone
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > fax
> > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > mobile
> > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 11:11 PM, John Mills wrote:
> > > > > > The last seal kit I got was from Miles, I don't know the details on how he puts the kits together or what they might be originally made for
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Eric Geiger > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > To: > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:07 pm
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > > Yes for 2 out of the 4 seals you unscrew it. 1 is on the very end and The very last seal though has to be pulled over the larger portion of the piston
> > > > > > This is how mine was atleast. The books I have online didn't add much help.
> > > > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > > > ---------------------------------------
> > > > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > phone
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > fax
> > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > mobile
> > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:33 PM, "John Mills" > > > > > jbmkwaj@...
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I have successfully rebuilt these, I do so many different types of vehicles I don't quite remember how the piston is on these. Isn't there a screw in the center of the piston you > > > > > > > need to remove to dissasemble the piston. My books are in the garage - I'll look it up tomorrow.
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Eric Geiger > > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > > To: > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:25 pm
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > > > i have to get ahold of the owner of the 600carparts website and see what he says. i cant figure it out for the life of me.
> > > > > > > has anyone rebuilt one of these themselves???
> > > > > > > For the last seal (closest to the firewall/brake pedal) how did you get the seal over the enlarged part of the piston??? did you just soak it in brake fluid and stretch it carefully? or is there a special way to do this. thats the only thing i can possibly > > > > > > > think of.
> > > > > > > When i first rebuilt it i left the last seal on as the original because i was unsure of how to get it over the larger portion of the piston. after installation and during the brake bleeding process when it started leaking i took it apart again and decided > > > > > > > to take the old seal off and put the new one on. the old seal broke while trying to removing it and stretching it to get it over the piston and then i carefully stretched the new (brake fluid soaked) seal over the piston making sure not to damage it. it still > > > > > > > leaked when i bled the brakes again. i took it apart 2 more times and checked the direction of all the seals against an old 3/4 master i had laying around and the directions all match. when putting it back together i made sure none of the seals folded over > > > > > > > onto themselves but still the same result.
> > > > > > > very frustrating!!
> > > > > > > Eric J. Geiger
> > > > > > > PRG Nocturne
> > > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > > phone
> > > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > > fax
> > > > > > > XXX-XXX-XXXX
> > > > > > > mobile
> > > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > > www.prgnocturne.com
> > > > > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:07 PM, John Mills wrote:
> > > > > > > > Eric, if the seal closest to the driver is good, installed in the correct direction and the bore is good, is it possible the brass liner has been misinstalled??
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: eric.geiger > > > > > > > egeiger@...
> > > > > > > > To: anzhonda600owners > > > > > > > anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16 pm
> > > > > > > > Subject: [anzhonda600owners] leaking master cylinder
> > > > > > > > I posted this in the 2cylinder group as well but I'm looking for more help.
> > > > > > > > i rebuilt a master cylinder today. its a new brass sleeved 13/16 cylinder and has all new check valves and seals from
> > > > > > > > http://www.honda600carparts.com/
> > > > > > > > i put it all together and went to bleed the brakes and noticed fluid leaking into the car through the fire wall after pumping them up.
> > > > > > > > i have disassembled and checked the seals 3 times already and they all look perfect. i also checked to make sure they were installed facing the correct direction and they are when compared to a different 3/4 master cylinder i had laying around.
> > > > > > > > short of buying a new set of seals all over again does anyone have any suggestions??
> > > > > > > > i need to get tho car on the road this week so i can take it to a car show on tuesday the 10th!
> > > > > > > > PLEASE HELP!!