Car not starting, running well. Trying to isolate problem.

[turbotwo]

I'm having a hard time starting the car. A few weeks ago it was
starting every time. Although it isn't running well, it was running.
It revs up but hesitates and misses, as if its not getting enough
fuel or too much fuel. But now it's very difficult to start and there
is quite the gas smell from the engine compartment. I pulled the
spark plugs right after it was running for 5 minutes and the drivers
side plug was black with carbon soot (like dust), it was easily
cleaned but still remained dark after cleaning. The passenger side
spark plug was very shiny/glossy wet with fuel, it was very clean
besides being soaked with fuel. When I try to drive the car it barely
has enough power for 1st gear. It feels like a car that is running
out of gas or when a catalytic converter is all plugged up. Here are
several things about the car that may help diagnose.
- It was sitting in my dad's garage for the last 13 years. Just
started working on it. Did all the standard stuff before first
starting it like draining/replacing oil/fuel.
- Recently I have replaced plugs (NGK B8ES), coil, points, condenser,
fuel filter, battery, battery cables, starter.
- When I screwed the plug boot connectors onto the new wires of the
coil I made sure there was good contact
- Car seems to flood very easily, maybe I need to replace the spark
plugs again.
- I have also adjusted the points gap, adjusted the valves, adjusted
the timing
- Tested the compression. Both cylinders at exactly 150psi. I think
the spec is 178psi, but at least they're both the same.
- Tested flow rate of fuel by timing how long it takes to fill an 8
oz. cup. According to specs in manual the fuel flow rate is good.
- While running I hear a knocking noise internally, like a rod knock.
- I have the Honda shop manual and owners manual so i'm trying to get
familiar with the car.
My feeling is the carburetor should be rebuilt. It doesn't really
hold idle, even with the choke pulled out and fully warm. I don't
quite know how to adjust it except for the idle speed and idle mixture
screw, which doesn't seem to make a difference. Sitting for 13 years
the carburetor is probably all gummed up. Why the extreme difference
in spark plug appearance? Valves? I was thinking maybe the passenger
side plug isn't firing but if that was the case wouldn't it not run at
all? Thanks in advanc for any help?
-Henry

[riceburner006]

--- In anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com, " " wrote:

> I'm having a hard time starting the car. A few weeks ago it was
> starting every time. Although it isn't running well, it was running.
> It revs up but hesitates and misses, as if its not getting enough
> fuel or too much fuel. But now it's very difficult to start and there
> is quite the gas smell from the engine compartment. I pulled the
> spark plugs right after it was running for 5 minutes and the drivers
> side plug was black with carbon soot (like dust), it was easily
> cleaned but still remained dark after cleaning. The passenger side
> spark plug was very shiny/glossy wet with fuel, it was very clean
> besides being soaked with fuel. When I try to drive the car it barely
> has enough power for 1st gear. It feels like a car that is running
> out of gas or when a catalytic converter is all plugged up. Here are
> several things about the car that may help diagnose.
> - It was sitting in my dad's garage for the last 13 years. Just
> started working on it. Did all the standard stuff before first
> starting it like draining/replacing oil/fuel.
> - Recently I have replaced plugs (NGK B8ES), coil, points, condenser,
> fuel filter, battery, battery cables, starter.
> - When I screwed the plug boot connectors onto the new wires of the
> coil I made sure there was good contact
> - Car seems to flood very easily, maybe I need to replace the spark
> plugs again.
> - I have also adjusted the points gap, adjusted the valves, adjusted
> the timing
> - Tested the compression. Both cylinders at exactly 150psi. I think
> the spec is 178psi, but at least they're both the same.
> - Tested flow rate of fuel by timing how long it takes to fill an 8
> oz. cup. According to specs in manual the fuel flow rate is good.
> - While running I hear a knocking noise internally, like a rod knock.
> - I have the Honda shop manual and owners manual so i'm trying to get
> familiar with the car.
> My feeling is the carburetor should be rebuilt. It doesn't really
> hold idle, even with the choke pulled out and fully warm. I don't
> quite know how to adjust it except for the idle speed and idle mixture
> screw, which doesn't seem to make a difference. Sitting for 13 years
> the carburetor is probably all gummed up. Why the extreme difference
> in spark plug appearance? Valves? I was thinking maybe the passenger
> side plug isn't firing but if that was the case wouldn't it not run at
> all? Thanks in advanc for any help?
> -Henry

Needle and seat could be leaking causing an overly rich mixture.
Does your pump click constantly? If it does,the needle/seat could be
bad. That shiny pass. plug is fouled out. Check the idle solenoid on
side of carb,needle tip on end should pull in when IGN. is on
position. Riceburner006

[turbotwo]

Are you referring to the fuel pump? If so no, it doesn't click
constantly, just a little bit when the ignition is turned on. I did
check the solenoid, it retracted when key is in IGN position.

[riceburner006]

Yes I meant the fuel pump. Before getting into the carb,I would also
check cam timing. With the T mark on case lined up with notch on the
crank pulley,the groove in end of cam on end opposite points side
should line up close With notch in housing.(not usually dead on).
You might need to rotate crank a full turn,if you don't see it first
try! If this is ok,I would check for a blue spark at plugs. Not
yellow! Then I dunno! Hard to fix this way!!

> Are you referring to the fuel pump? If so no, it doesn't click
> constantly, just a little bit when the ignition is turned on. I did
> check the solenoid, it retracted when key is in IGN position.
> --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, "riceburner006"
> wrote:
> > --- In
anzhonda600owners@yahoogroups.com
, " " wrote:
> > > I'm having a hard time starting the car. A few weeks ago it was
> > > starting every time. Although it isn't running well, it was
> > running.
> > > It revs up but hesitates and misses, as if its not getting enough
> > > fuel or too much fuel. But now it's very difficult to start and
> > there
> > > is quite the gas smell from the engine compartment. I pulled the
> > > spark plugs right after it was running for 5 minutes and the
> > drivers
> > > side plug was black with carbon soot (like dust), it was easily
> > > cleaned but still remained dark after cleaning. The passenger side
> > > spark plug was very shiny/glossy wet with fuel, it was very clean
> > > besides being soaked with fuel. When I try to drive the car it
> > barely
> > > has enough power for 1st gear. It feels like a car that is running
> > > out of gas or when a catalytic converter is all plugged up. Here
> > are
> > > several things about the car that may help diagnose.
> > > - It was sitting in my dad's garage for the last 13 years. Just
> > > started working on it. Did all the standard stuff before first
> > > starting it like draining/replacing oil/fuel.
> > > - Recently I have replaced plugs (NGK B8ES), coil, points,
> > condenser,
> > > fuel filter, battery, battery cables, starter.
> > > - When I screwed the plug boot connectors onto the new wires of the
> > > coil I made sure there was good contact
> > > - Car seems to flood very easily, maybe I need to replace the spark
> > > plugs again.
> > > - I have also adjusted the points gap, adjusted the valves,
> > adjusted
> > > the timing
> > > - Tested the compression. Both cylinders at exactly 150psi. I
> > think
> > > the spec is 178psi, but at least they're both the same.
> > > - Tested flow rate of fuel by timing how long it takes to fill an 8
> > > oz. cup. According to specs in manual the fuel flow rate is good.
> > > - While running I hear a knocking noise internally, like a rod
> > knock.
> > > - I have the Honda shop manual and owners manual so i'm trying to
> > get
> > > familiar with the car.
> > > My feeling is the carburetor should be rebuilt. It doesn't really
> > > hold idle, even with the choke pulled out and fully warm. I don't
> > > quite know how to adjust it except for the idle speed and idle
> > mixture
> > > screw, which doesn't seem to make a difference. Sitting for 13
> > years
> > > the carburetor is probably all gummed up. Why the extreme
> > difference
> > > in spark plug appearance? Valves? I was thinking maybe the
> > passenger
> > > side plug isn't firing but if that was the case wouldn't it not
> > run at
> > > all? Thanks in advanc for any help?
> > > -Henry
> > Needle and seat could be leaking causing an overly rich mixture.
> > Does your pump click constantly? If it does,the needle/seat could be
> > bad. That shiny pass. plug is fouled out. Check the idle solenoid on
> > side of carb,needle tip on end should pull in when IGN. is on
> > position. Riceburner006

[Lyle]

Gosh, Henry, you tried just about everything. But lets do a bit of trouble
shooting:
- wet plugs are not firing.
- sooty plugs are being fed rich fuel.
- open the air box and see if there is fuel coming into the filter.
- No power, your running on one plug.
- a knock in the engine, could be a lot of things, even a bad rear motor
mount. Question, how is the vibration? How are the bolts holding things on?
is the heat exchanger rattling.
- you mentioned you set the valves, what did you set them to? and what was
the torque on the rocker bolt? Did you set them with the engine cold or hot?
and, did you check them after tightening the bolt?
Henry, I would go to the carb and take it apart, clean it good, opening
everything and pay close attention to the needle valve, it could have some
gum around the point that came loose after you started driving it and
attached itself to the needle valve.
And the wet plug, put a meter on it and see what it says. I have had new
plugs with the insulator cracked. (you never know who dropped it at sparkys
auto parts)
Maybe some one else in the group has some suggestions. Miles? Mike? Jim?
Bill

[Love]

Personally, I'd check the plugs.  remove the sparkplugs, have a friend crank the car while you hold the plug to ground to visually check for spark on both sides.  It's possible the plug won't fire under compression, so stick them back in.  Get the engine 'warm' and check the exaust pipes for blistering heat (not a finger, use an ice cube).
wrote:

> I'm having a hard time starting the car.  A few weeks ago it was > starting every time.  Although it isn't running well, it was running.
> It revs up but hesitates and misses, as if its not getting enough > fuel or too much fuel.  But now it's very difficult to start and there > is quite the gas smell from the engine compartment.  I pulled the > spark plugs right after it was running for 5 minutes and the drivers > side plug was black with carbon soot (like dust), it was easily > cleaned but still remained dark after cleaning.  The passenger side > spark plug was very shiny/glossy wet with fuel, it was very clean > besides being soaked with fuel.  When I try to drive the car it barely > has enough power for 1st gear.  It feels like a car that is running > out of gas or when a catalytic converter is all plugged up.  Here > are > several things about the car that may help diagnose.
> - It was sitting in my dad's garage for the last 13 years.  Just > started working on it.  Did all the standard stuff before first > starting it like draining/replacing oil/fuel.
> - Recently I have replaced plugs (NGK B8ES), coil, points, condenser, > fuel filter, battery, battery cables, starter.
> - When I screwed the plug boot connectors onto the new wires of the > coil I made sure there was good contact > - Car seems to flood very easily, maybe I need to replace the spark > plugs again.
> - I have also adjusted the points gap, adjusted the valves, adjusted > the timing > - Tested the compression.  Both cylinders at exactly 150psi.  I think > the spec is 178psi, but at least they're both the same.
> - Tested flow rate of fuel by timing how long it takes to fill an 8 > oz. cup.  According to specs in manual the fuel flow rate is good.
> - While running I hear a knocking
> noise internally, like a rod knock.
> - I have the Honda shop manual and owners manual so i'm trying to get > familiar with the car.
> My feeling is the carburetor should be rebuilt.  It doesn't really > hold idle, even with the choke pulled out and fully warm.  I don't > quite know how to adjust it except for the idle speed and idle mixture > screw, which doesn't seem to make a difference.  Sitting for 13 years > the carburetor is probably all gummed up. Why the extreme difference > in spark plug appearance?  Valves?  I was thinking maybe the passenger > side plug isn't firing but if that was the case wouldn't it not run at > all?  Thanks in advanc for any help?
> -Henry