I didn't want to hijack Elliot's thread so I am asking here, What exactly is a Hawaiian cam? The specs; lift, duration and overlap? Why lash caps? They are usually used when there is a soft stem on the valve. We use them on VW engines often. Are the springs stiffer with the Hawaiian cam? Maybe this is why it has lash caps. The valve stems must be shorter to allow for the caps. I would also think the head would have a different head (quench/compression) design and piston shape.
David
Elliot's Cam
Re: Elliot's Cam
Hi David;
Please join in...
The difference in the cam is lobe duration. To regrind the cam most just take some off the bottom end of the lobe resulting in a too low adjustment for the rocker arms as they use the eccentric at each end of the rocker arm shaft to take up the adjustment needed to open the valve properly at between .003 to .004 gap on the back side of each lobe and the rocker arm. Original cam/rocker/valve assembly didn’t require a lash cap as there was enough meat in the assembly to give long life to the adjustment.
However when you take some of that away, it has to be put back some place.
So, lash caps allow you to do that.
The Honda 600 Sedan’s first sold in Hawaii were 45hp engines, meaning they had a larger carb, longer duration on the cam and the Y exhaust system (using a angle port head) all of which made the difference between the 36hp engine (California spec) and the 45hp engine first sold in Hawaii.
Chassis/Engine numbers from NXXX-XXX-XXXX N600E-1014095 through N600 1018285 N600E 1017730 and some of the numbers in-between were not delivered to Hawaii.
They included chassis numbers going to England and Australia (from the information I have been able to gather).
But it’s the engine numbers that tell how many were actually sold in Hawaii as Honda made their engines specific to country regulations and that would make it about 3635 Honda 600 Sedans sold in Hawaii in 1969.
In January of 1970 all Honda 600’s being built for the USA conformed to California EPA requirements.
That is not to say there weren’t Honda 600’s being modified by dealerships seeing the difference between the two and going to their parts people and ordering the necessary parts to make “Hawaii” engines for their cars.
In the late 80’s all these parts were still available in the parts book and could be ordered.
Bill
Please join in...
The difference in the cam is lobe duration. To regrind the cam most just take some off the bottom end of the lobe resulting in a too low adjustment for the rocker arms as they use the eccentric at each end of the rocker arm shaft to take up the adjustment needed to open the valve properly at between .003 to .004 gap on the back side of each lobe and the rocker arm. Original cam/rocker/valve assembly didn’t require a lash cap as there was enough meat in the assembly to give long life to the adjustment.
However when you take some of that away, it has to be put back some place.
So, lash caps allow you to do that.
The Honda 600 Sedan’s first sold in Hawaii were 45hp engines, meaning they had a larger carb, longer duration on the cam and the Y exhaust system (using a angle port head) all of which made the difference between the 36hp engine (California spec) and the 45hp engine first sold in Hawaii.
Chassis/Engine numbers from NXXX-XXX-XXXX N600E-1014095 through N600 1018285 N600E 1017730 and some of the numbers in-between were not delivered to Hawaii.
They included chassis numbers going to England and Australia (from the information I have been able to gather).
But it’s the engine numbers that tell how many were actually sold in Hawaii as Honda made their engines specific to country regulations and that would make it about 3635 Honda 600 Sedans sold in Hawaii in 1969.
In January of 1970 all Honda 600’s being built for the USA conformed to California EPA requirements.
That is not to say there weren’t Honda 600’s being modified by dealerships seeing the difference between the two and going to their parts people and ordering the necessary parts to make “Hawaii” engines for their cars.
In the late 80’s all these parts were still available in the parts book and could be ordered.
Bill
-
Don B Laughton
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:32 am
Re: Elliot's Cam
To modify a standard cam, the heel is ground to increase the lift and the toe is ground to increase duration. This changes the contact between the cam and the rocker arm. This also screws up the relationship between the rocker and the valve. The valve stem caps bring the relationships back to where they belong so the rocker shaft can be used to adjust the valve clearance. (Without the stem caps, the valves can't be adjusted.)
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:11 AM, Bill wrote:
Hi David;
Please join in...
The difference in the cam is lobe duration. To regrind the cam most just take some off the bottom end of the lobe resulting in a too low adjustment for the rocker arms as they use the eccentric at each end of the rocker arm shaft to take up the adjustment needed to open the valve properly at between .003 to .004 gap on the back side of each lobe and the rocker arm. Original cam/rocker/valve assembly didnt require a lash cap as there was enough meat in the assembly to give long life to the adjustment.
However when you take some of that away, it has to be put back some place.
So, lash caps allow you to do that.
The Honda 600 Sedans first sold in Hawaii were 45hp engines, meaning they had a larger carb, longer duration on the cam and the Y exhaust system (using a angle port head) all of which made the difference between the 36hp engine (California spec) and the 45hp engine first sold in Hawaii.
Chassis/Engine numbers from NXXX-XXX-XXXX N600E-1014095 through N600 1018285 N600E 1017730 and some of the numbers in-between were not delivered to Hawaii.
They included chassis numbers going to England and Australia (from the information I have been able to gather).
But its the engine numbers that tell how many were actually sold in Hawaii as Honda made their engines specific to country regulations and that would make it about 3635 Honda 600 Sedans sold in Hawaii in 1969.
In January of 1970 all Honda 600s being built for the USA conformed to California EPA requirements.
That is not to say there werent Honda 600s being modified by dealerships seeing the difference between the two and going to their parts people and ordering the necessary parts to make Hawaii engines for their cars.
In the late 80s all these parts were still available in the parts book and could be ordered.
Bill
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:11 AM, Bill wrote:
Hi David;
Please join in...
The difference in the cam is lobe duration. To regrind the cam most just take some off the bottom end of the lobe resulting in a too low adjustment for the rocker arms as they use the eccentric at each end of the rocker arm shaft to take up the adjustment needed to open the valve properly at between .003 to .004 gap on the back side of each lobe and the rocker arm. Original cam/rocker/valve assembly didnt require a lash cap as there was enough meat in the assembly to give long life to the adjustment.
However when you take some of that away, it has to be put back some place.
So, lash caps allow you to do that.
The Honda 600 Sedans first sold in Hawaii were 45hp engines, meaning they had a larger carb, longer duration on the cam and the Y exhaust system (using a angle port head) all of which made the difference between the 36hp engine (California spec) and the 45hp engine first sold in Hawaii.
Chassis/Engine numbers from NXXX-XXX-XXXX N600E-1014095 through N600 1018285 N600E 1017730 and some of the numbers in-between were not delivered to Hawaii.
They included chassis numbers going to England and Australia (from the information I have been able to gather).
But its the engine numbers that tell how many were actually sold in Hawaii as Honda made their engines specific to country regulations and that would make it about 3635 Honda 600 Sedans sold in Hawaii in 1969.
In January of 1970 all Honda 600s being built for the USA conformed to California EPA requirements.
That is not to say there werent Honda 600s being modified by dealerships seeing the difference between the two and going to their parts people and ordering the necessary parts to make Hawaii engines for their cars.
In the late 80s all these parts were still available in the parts book and could be ordered.
Bill
-
Don B Laughton
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:32 am
Re: Elliot's Cam
Hi Bill, In 1969-1970 there was one Honda automobile dealer in Hawaii, Fluger Lincoln Mercury. They sold the 45hp car...but only a few hundred of that type before the arrival of the 36hp version. (The 1970 NHTSA heater-defroster requirement may have played a part in killing the 45hp engine.) Your number of 3,635 45hp N600s is valid, but only when cars sent to Europe (France, Germany, Belgium and the U.K.) are considered.
The 45hp car was O.K. for puttering around European cities or flying along Hawaiian highways at 45mph. But, trying to keep up with traffic on a California Freeway was/is the secret to a short, perhaps unhappy life.
P.S. I have French and Belgian N360/400/600 and Z600 sales data...also German numbers (combined with S800 registrations. If your interest, I can FAX them.
Best wishes, Don
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:46 AM, Don B Laughton wrote:
To modify a standard cam, the heel is ground to increase the lift and the toe is ground to increase duration. This changes the contact between the cam and the rocker arm. This also screws up the relationship between the rocker and the valve. The valve stem caps bring the relationships back to where they belong so the rocker shaft can be used to adjust the valve clearance. (Without the stem caps, the valves can't be adjusted.)
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:11 AM, Bill wrote:
Hi David;
Please join in...
The difference in the cam is lobe duration. To regrind the cam most just take some off the bottom end of the lobe resulting in a too low adjustment for the rocker arms as they use the eccentric at each end of the rocker arm shaft to take up the adjustment needed to open the valve properly at between .003 to .004 gap on the back side of each lobe and the rocker arm. Original cam/rocker/valve assembly didnt require a lash cap as there was enough meat in the assembly to give long life to the adjustment.
However when you take some of that away, it has to be put back some place.
So, lash caps allow you to do that.
The Honda 600 Sedans first sold in Hawaii were 45hp engines, meaning they had a larger carb, longer duration on the cam and the Y exhaust system (using a angle port head) all of which made the difference between the 36hp engine (California spec) and the 45hp engine first sold in Hawaii.
Chassis/Engine numbers from NXXX-XXX-XXXX N600E-1014095 through N600 1018285 N600E 1017730 and some of the numbers in-between were not delivered to Hawaii.
They included chassis numbers going to England and Australia (from the information I have been able to gather).
But its the engine numbers that tell how many were actually sold in Hawaii as Honda made their engines specific to country regulations and that would make it about 3635 Honda 600 Sedans sold in Hawaii in 1969.
In January of 1970 all Honda 600s being built for the USA conformed to California EPA requirements.
That is not to say there werent Honda 600s being modified by dealerships seeing the difference between the two and going to their parts people and ordering the necessary parts to make Hawaii engines for their cars.
In the late 80s all these parts were still available in the parts book and could be ordered.
Bill
The 45hp car was O.K. for puttering around European cities or flying along Hawaiian highways at 45mph. But, trying to keep up with traffic on a California Freeway was/is the secret to a short, perhaps unhappy life.
P.S. I have French and Belgian N360/400/600 and Z600 sales data...also German numbers (combined with S800 registrations. If your interest, I can FAX them.
Best wishes, Don
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:46 AM, Don B Laughton wrote:
To modify a standard cam, the heel is ground to increase the lift and the toe is ground to increase duration. This changes the contact between the cam and the rocker arm. This also screws up the relationship between the rocker and the valve. The valve stem caps bring the relationships back to where they belong so the rocker shaft can be used to adjust the valve clearance. (Without the stem caps, the valves can't be adjusted.)
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:11 AM, Bill wrote:
Hi David;
Please join in...
The difference in the cam is lobe duration. To regrind the cam most just take some off the bottom end of the lobe resulting in a too low adjustment for the rocker arms as they use the eccentric at each end of the rocker arm shaft to take up the adjustment needed to open the valve properly at between .003 to .004 gap on the back side of each lobe and the rocker arm. Original cam/rocker/valve assembly didnt require a lash cap as there was enough meat in the assembly to give long life to the adjustment.
However when you take some of that away, it has to be put back some place.
So, lash caps allow you to do that.
The Honda 600 Sedans first sold in Hawaii were 45hp engines, meaning they had a larger carb, longer duration on the cam and the Y exhaust system (using a angle port head) all of which made the difference between the 36hp engine (California spec) and the 45hp engine first sold in Hawaii.
Chassis/Engine numbers from NXXX-XXX-XXXX N600E-1014095 through N600 1018285 N600E 1017730 and some of the numbers in-between were not delivered to Hawaii.
They included chassis numbers going to England and Australia (from the information I have been able to gather).
But its the engine numbers that tell how many were actually sold in Hawaii as Honda made their engines specific to country regulations and that would make it about 3635 Honda 600 Sedans sold in Hawaii in 1969.
In January of 1970 all Honda 600s being built for the USA conformed to California EPA requirements.
That is not to say there werent Honda 600s being modified by dealerships seeing the difference between the two and going to their parts people and ordering the necessary parts to make Hawaii engines for their cars.
In the late 80s all these parts were still available in the parts book and could be ordered.
Bill
Re: Elliot's Cam
Hi Don;
You got it. Like I said, they also went to other countries, the 3635 number is the number of engine numbers between the start and end manufacture number date from the parts manual. Included were Japan, England and Australia (from the chassis and engine numbers I have collected from owners) I have not received any numbers for the 45hp Sedan in France, Germany or Belgium. The ones I did from France and Germany were 42hp engines and dated later build dates.
I was dating a young lady in Hawaii in Apr. 1970 who had one. I really didn't know what they were at the time but there were not many around. And she wanted to ride around in my Chevy Nova so there were not any choice memories in the Honda.
Bill
You got it. Like I said, they also went to other countries, the 3635 number is the number of engine numbers between the start and end manufacture number date from the parts manual. Included were Japan, England and Australia (from the chassis and engine numbers I have collected from owners) I have not received any numbers for the 45hp Sedan in France, Germany or Belgium. The ones I did from France and Germany were 42hp engines and dated later build dates.
I was dating a young lady in Hawaii in Apr. 1970 who had one. I really didn't know what they were at the time but there were not many around. And she wanted to ride around in my Chevy Nova so there were not any choice memories in the Honda.
Bill