master cylinder rebuild effort

Archived posts from the 2 Cylinder Hondas Yahoo Group
tdthies1
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:58 pm

Re: Tires in NorCal

Post by tdthies1 »

Kevin
Right now at JC Whtney for around $77 and free shipping. http://automotive.become.com/14580r10-p ... c895256076
--- In
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
, Greg Hahs wrote:
> Buy Kuhmo tires. If you can find them also.
> Greg
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Kevin Gailey wrote:
> > I am in Sacramento and can't find tires. I know minimania has them, but
> > for 89.95 plus shipping. Performance tire has them for 57.95 in southern
> > California, but they are out of stock. Any place I could drive to? I would
> > even go to San Francisco.
> > Kevin Gailey
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* "billmyong@..."
> > *To:* Anzhonda600owners ;
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Sun, February 21, 2010 11:51:55 PM
> > *Subject:* [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
> > All;
> > Dale has said one way of removing the pistons, and it will work. But why
> > waste the brake fluid? DOT3 is made to absorb moisture and it has dried out
> > changing it to a crystallized DOT3 fluid. I use a bucket of clear water and
> > do much the same as he suggested. Only; after opening all the screws, bolts
> > and fittings to allow the water to get in (for an hour or two). To remove
> > the pistons, I leaving the end clip and washer off the open end and use
> > bolts to cap off every opening but one of the end ones and then just blow it
> > out with compressed air back into the bucket of water. Or, I have used a
> > canvas bag to catch the pistons as they will come out rather abruptly.
> > Digging, picking and banging at things can make a mess and even damage the
> > cylinder or pistons. And, if the pistons come out right I have had some
> > success of using the seals again. (It depended a lot on "IF" the crystals
> > had cut into the rubber).
> > And don't forget; there is a small bleed-back hole in both of the
> > reservoir inlets (one is larger than the other) that will need to be opened
> > with a sharp object or very small drill.
> > Always take pictures, notes, draw diagrams of how things go back together.
> > Even the check-valves (I use a small magnet to get them out) are different
> > for the front or rear brake systems. The pistons will have to come apart,
> > measure them to make sure they are the proper length when you put everything
> > back together. When assembling the master cylinder use a lubricant, DOT3
> > will work, but I like Barryman Assembly Lube.
> > Contact them at *info@berrymanproduc ts.com* to
> > ask about it.
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
]
> > *On Behalf Of *goinhm@...
> > *Sent:* Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:28 PM
> > *To:* 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > *Subject:* Re: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
> > Here are my suggestions (I'm sure you will see others)..... .
> > 1) remove as many of the fittings on it as possible (the section where the
> > brake reservoirs are connected and the stop light switches and anything else
> > you can remove
> > 2) soak in brake fluid (I have seen others mention warm water but I use
> > brake fluid)
> > 3) remove the bolt at the very front (and side) of the MC (it has a 10 mm
> > head) and remove the circlip at the rear of the MC which holds the pistons
> > in place. Try using a small pin driver or screwdriver through the hole in
> > the front (where you removed the 10mm bolt) to push the piston assembly
> > free.
> > 4) If this doesn't work (and it may not since the piston assembly is
> > spring loaded), let it soak for several days and then try slamming the rear
> > section against a piece of wood. You can also try tapping on the MC with a
> > plastic mallet to set up some vibrations which may free things up (don't hit
> > it with a metal hammer.... you don't want to damage the MC). If you had
> > access to an ultrasonic cleaner, this could be helpful.
> > If it doesn't come free, let it soak some more and every day try slamming
> > it against the wooden block. You can also heat the MC with a heat gun or
> > hair dryer (If you use a propane torch, you need to be very careful).
> > If you still cannot get it free, you may need to accept that even if you
> > do get the assembly to come out, the entire cylinder is going to need
> > rebuilding (re-sleeve the cylinder, replace all the seals, replacing any
> > of the other components which are damaged). This is where it can get
> > expensive. Miles may still be selling the seals.
> > When it gets to this point where nothing is working, you can heat up the
> > MC until the seals and the dried brake fluid (it turns into a compound which
> > reminds me of dried rubber cement) are hot enough that everything slides
> > out. And then you can rebuild the whole thing or pick up a used one from
> > someone on this post.
> > I have found that it just takes patience and persistence to get the
> > assembly to come apart. At a minimum, you are going to need to clean the
> > bore and replace the two piston seals. It is very likely the bore may need
> > to be re-sleeved.
> > Good luck,
> > Dale
> > I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As
> > I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The
> > piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I
> > don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about
> > getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a
> > couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop
> > out the piston?
> > Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off
> > the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain
> > hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> > Thanks.
> --
> Professional Isetta Restorations
Matthew Trtan
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:51 pm

Re: master cylinder rebuild effort

Post by Matthew Trtan »

Thanks Dan, soaking now.
Matthew Trtan AAIA LEED AP
On Feb 22, 2010, at 5:58 PM, Dan Vann wrote:
Matt,
After beating and banging every day for a week...... I tried the "hot water" suggestion and it was out in less than an hour!
But you still have to have the bleeders and as much of the other attachments removed in order for the water to get at the dried brake fluid inside.
good luck
Dan
--- On
Sun, 2/21/10, Matthew Trtan
From: Matthew Trtan hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort > To: "2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com" > Cc: "2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com" > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:31 PM
> Thanks guys.  That'll keep me going for now.  Like you said Dan, lots of patience.
> Matthew Trtan
> AAIA LEED AP
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Dan Vann catman_thirty3@
> yahoo.com
> > wrote:
> > This is the question I've been waiting for! ..... or moreso the answer !!!
> > I've got a stuck piston too, though have been able to remove about everything that could be removed with the aid of penetrating fluid .....and PATIENCE!
> > I've had sucess with ~HEAT~ and tapping it upside down on a block of wood in the past....
> > or you can drill a hole in the end, push out the piston, thread the hole and plug it with a small short bolt and compression washer (I think the Honda gurus approve of this method as a last resort!?)
> > And most recently, I replaced all the parts and pieces, hooked it up to the rear brake hose with an extra rear brake line I have, and tryed to use the hydrolic pressure of the brake system to back out the piston...... . but that didn't work :/
> > So try heating the cylinder and knocking it upsidedown on a block of wood -
> > enough heat that still won't burn your hand and enough knock that don't hurt your hand!
> > Keep it soaking.... while you wait for others to reply. You will have to remove almost everything eventually to properly clean and clear all the little port hole for the fluid to flow properly.
> > ....and sorry for the venacular, I don't have my manual here to properly identify all the misc elements
> > Dan
> > --- On
> > Sun, 2/21/10, trtlepnther21
> > > hotmail.com
> > wrote:
> > > From: trtlepnther21 > > hotmail.com
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort > > > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 9:01 PM
> > > I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the piston?
> > > Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> > > Thanks.
Kevin Gailey
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 12:17 pm

Re: Tires in NorCal

Post by Kevin Gailey »

Thanks for the tip on the free shipping, I ordered 2!
From:
tdthies1 To:
2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Mon, February 22, 2010 4:43:02 PM Subject:
[2cylinderhondas] Re: Tires in NorCal
Kevin
Right now at JC Whtney for around $77 and free shipping.
http://automotive. become.com/ 14580r10- power-star- radial-tire- -compare- prices--sc895256 076
--- In
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
, Greg Hahs wrote:
> Buy Kuhmo tires. If you can find them also.
> Greg
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Kevin Gailey wrote:
> > I am in Sacramento and can't find tires. I know minimania has them, but
> > for 89.95 plus shipping. Performance tire has them for 57.95 in southern
> > California, but they are out of stock. Any place I could drive to? I would
> > even go to San Francisco.
> > Kevin Gailey
> > ------------ --------- ---------
> > *From:* "billmyong@. .."
> > *To:* Anzhonda600owners ;
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > *Sent:* Sun, February 21, 2010 11:51:55 PM
> > *Subject:* [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
> > All;
> > Dale has said one way of removing the pistons, and it will work. But why
> > waste the brake fluid? DOT3 is made to absorb moisture and it has dried out
> > changing it to a crystallized DOT3 fluid. I use a bucket of clear water and
> > do much the same as he suggested. Only; after opening all the screws, bolts
> > and fittings to allow the water to get in (for an hour or two). To remove
> > the pistons, I leaving the end clip and washer off the open end and use
> > bolts to cap off every opening but one of the end ones and then just blow it
> > out with compressed air back into the bucket of water. Or, I have used a
> > canvas bag to catch the pistons as they will come out rather abruptly.
> > Digging, picking and banging at things can make a mess and even damage the
> > cylinder or pistons. And, if the pistons come out right I have had some
> > success of using the seals again. (It depended a lot on "IF" the crystals
> > had cut into the rubber).
> > And don't forget; there is a small bleed-back hole in both of the
> > reservoir inlets (one is larger than the other) that will need to be opened
> > with a sharp object or very small drill.
> > Always take pictures, notes, draw diagrams of how things go back together.
> > Even the check-valves (I use a small magnet to get them out) are different
> > for the front or rear brake systems. The pistons will have to come apart,
> > measure them to make sure they are the proper length when you put everything
> > back together. When assembling the master cylinder use a lubricant, DOT3
> > will work, but I like Barryman Assembly Lube.
> > Contact them at *info@berrymanprodu c ts.com* to
> > ask about it.
> > Bill
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:
2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
]
> > *On Behalf Of *goinhm@...
> > *Sent:* Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:28 PM
> > *To:* 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com
> > *Subject:* Re: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort
> > Here are my suggestions (I'm sure you will see others)..... .
> > 1) remove as many of the fittings on it as possible (the section where the
> > brake reservoirs are connected and the stop light switches and anything else
> > you can remove
> > 2) soak in brake fluid (I have seen others mention warm water but I use
> > brake fluid)
> > 3) remove the bolt at the very front (and side) of the MC (it has a 10 mm
> > head) and remove the circlip at the rear of the MC which holds the pistons
> > in place. Try using a small pin driver or screwdriver through the hole in
> > the front (where you removed the 10mm bolt) to push the piston assembly
> > free.
> > 4) If this doesn't work (and it may not since the piston assembly is
> > spring loaded), let it soak for several days and then try slamming the rear
> > section against a piece of wood. You can also try tapping on the MC with a
> > plastic mallet to set up some vibrations which may free things up (don't hit
> > it with a metal hammer.... you don't want to damage the MC). If you had
> > access to an ultrasonic cleaner, this could be helpful.
> > If it doesn't come free, let it soak some more and every day try slamming
> > it against the wooden block. You can also heat the MC with a heat gun or
> > hair dryer (If you use a propane torch, you need to be very careful).
> > If you still cannot get it free, you may need to accept that even if you
> > do get the assembly to come out, the entire cylinder is going to need
> > rebuilding (re-sleeve the cylinder, replace all the seals, replacing any
> > of the other components which are damaged). This is where it can get
> > expensive. Miles may still be selling the seals.
> > When it gets to this point where nothing is working, you can heat up the
> > MC until the seals and the dried brake fluid (it turns into a compound which
> > reminds me of dried rubber cement) are hot enough that everything slides
> > out. And then you can rebuild the whole thing or pick up a used one from
> > someone on this post.
> > I have found that it just takes patience and persistence to get the
> > assembly to come apart. At a minimum, you are going to need to clean the
> > bore and replace the two piston seals. It is very likely the bore may need
> > to be re-sleeved.
> > Good luck,
> > Dale
> > I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As
> > I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The
> > piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I
> > don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about
> > getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a
> > couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop
> > out the piston?
> > Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off
> > the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain
> > hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> > Thanks.
> --
> Professional Isetta Restorations
Matthew Trtan
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:51 pm

Re: master cylinder rebuild effort

Post by Matthew Trtan »

Got the cylinder apart this morning.  Hot water, patience, and slamming.  To my surprise, the bore looks to be in great shape.  I am going to get a soft toothbrush in it, just to make it sparkle again.  The rubber looks and feels good, one of the seals needs replacing for sure.  Going to replace them all anyway.  Does the $45 rebuild kit come with all the rubber I need?  What else?  Pictures will be up soon.
Matthew Trtan AAIA LEED AP
On Feb 22, 2010, at 5:58 PM, Dan Vann wrote:
Matt,
After beating and banging every day for a week...... I tried the "hot water" suggestion and it was out in less than an hour!
But you still have to have the bleeders and as much of the other attachments removed in order for the water to get at the dried brake fluid inside.
good luck
Dan
--- On
Sun, 2/21/10, Matthew Trtan
From: Matthew Trtan hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort > To: "2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com" > Cc: "2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com" > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:31 PM
> Thanks guys.  That'll keep me going for now.  Like you said Dan, lots of patience.
> Matthew Trtan
> AAIA LEED AP
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Dan Vann catman_thirty3@
> yahoo.com
> > wrote:
> > This is the question I've been waiting for! ..... or moreso the answer !!!
> > I've got a stuck piston too, though have been able to remove about everything that could be removed with the aid of penetrating fluid .....and PATIENCE!
> > I've had sucess with ~HEAT~ and tapping it upside down on a block of wood in the past....
> > or you can drill a hole in the end, push out the piston, thread the hole and plug it with a small short bolt and compression washer (I think the Honda gurus approve of this method as a last resort!?)
> > And most recently, I replaced all the parts and pieces, hooked it up to the rear brake hose with an extra rear brake line I have, and tryed to use the hydrolic pressure of the brake system to back out the piston...... . but that didn't work :/
> > So try heating the cylinder and knocking it upsidedown on a block of wood -
> > enough heat that still won't burn your hand and enough knock that don't hurt your hand!
> > Keep it soaking.... while you wait for others to reply. You will have to remove almost everything eventually to properly clean and clear all the little port hole for the fluid to flow properly.
> > ....and sorry for the venacular, I don't have my manual here to properly identify all the misc elements
> > Dan
> > --- On
> > Sun, 2/21/10, trtlepnther21
> > > hotmail.com
> > wrote:
> > > From: trtlepnther21 > > hotmail.com
> > > Subject: [2cylinderhondas] master cylinder rebuild effort > > > To: 2cylinderhondas@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 9:01 PM
> > > I have the MC out and I am having a couple of problems taking it apart. As I said, the fluid had gummed up over the course of 10 years sitting. The piston is completely depressed within the cylinder and will not budge. I don't want to use too much force and mess anything up. How should I go about getting this thing apart? Should I soak the whole thing in brake fluid for a couple of days? Can I use something to stick down in the cylinder and pop out the piston?
> > > Most of the buts/bleeders are stuck on there and I don't want to round off the nut. The penetrating oil hasn't done the job quite yet, but I remain hopeful. Suggestions on breaking this thing down?
> > > Thanks.
zinc2u
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:45 am

Re: master cylinder rebuild effort

Post by zinc2u »

The kit which Miles sells contains all the seals you will need and it also includes assembly instructions.
You will need to disassemble the MC and when you take apart the section on the top containing the check valves,  make note of which parts came from the Front and Rear sections.
With the check valves removed from the MC,  you will see some tiny holes in the body of the MC.  You should be able to run a fine wire through all the holes.  These holes need to be cleaned out so the passage is open.  If they are plugged,  it may take some patience to clean them out.
good luck,
Dale
> Got
> the cylinder apart this morning.  Hot water, patience, and slamming.
>  To my surprise, the bore looks to be in great shape.  I am going to > get a soft toothbrush in it, just to make it sparkle again.  The rubber > looks and feels good, one of the seals needs replacing for sure.  Going > to replace them all anyway.  Does the $45 rebuild kit come with all the > rubber I need?  What else?  Pictures will be up soon.
Matthew Trtan
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:51 pm

Re: master cylinder rebuild effort

Post by Matthew Trtan »

Well I went ahead and cleaned and rebuilt the cylinder using all existing pieces.  I replaced the feed lines from the reservoir and cleaned everything meticulously.  Fired everything up and the system pressurized after a little while.  I am going to bleed lines tomorrow.  As of right now, brakes are stopping the car which is far better than no brakes.  I am fairly satisfied right now, although a rebuild kit WILL be in my near future.  Thanks for everones help.
Matthew Trtan AAIA LEED AP
On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:28 PM,
goinhm@...
wrote:
The kit which Miles sells contains all the seals you will need and it also includes assembly instructions.
You will need to disassemble the MC and when you take apart
the section on the top containing the check valves,  make note of which parts came from the Front and Rear sections.
With the check valves removed from the MC,  you will see some tiny holes in the body of the MC.  You should be able to run a fine wire through all the holes.  These holes need to be cleaned out so the passage is open.  If they are plugged,  it may take some patience to clean them out.
good luck,
Dale
> Got
> the cylinder apart this morning.  Hot water, patience, and slamming.
>  To my surprise, the bore looks to be in great shape.  I am going to > get a soft toothbrush in it, just to make it sparkle again.  The rubber > looks and feels good, one of the seals needs replacing for sure.  Going > to replace them all anyway.  Does the $45 rebuild kit come with all the > rubber I need?  What else?  Pictures will be up soon.
TOM THIES
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:47 am

Re: master cylinder rebuild effort

Post by TOM THIES »


awesome to hear that!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Matthew Trtan
> To:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:
> 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:04
> PM
> Subject:
> Re: [2cylinderhondas] master
> cylinder rebuild effort
> Well I went ahead and cleaned and rebuilt the cylinder using all existing > pieces.  I replaced the feed lines from the reservoir and cleaned > everything meticulously.  Fired everything up and the system pressurized > after a little while.  I am going to bleed lines tomorrow.  As of > right now, brakes are stopping the car which is far better than no brakes.
>  I am fairly satisfied right now, although a rebuild kit WILL be in my > near future.  Thanks for everones help.
> Matthew Trtan
> AAIA LEED AP
> On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:28 PM,
> goinhm@...
> wrote:
> > The kit which Miles sells contains all the seals you will need and > > it also includes assembly instructions.
> > You will need to disassemble the MC and when you take apart > > the section on the top containing the check valves,  make > > note of which parts came from the Front and Rear sections.
> > With the check valves removed from the MC,  you will see some tiny > > holes in the body of the MC.  You should be able to run a fine wire > > through all the holes.  These holes need to be cleaned out so the > > passage is open.  If they are plugged,  it may take some patience > > to clean them out.
> > good luck,
> > Dale
> > > Got the cylinder apart this morning.  Hot water,
> > > patience, and slamming.  To my surprise, the bore looks to be in > > > great shape.  I am going to get a soft toothbrush in it, just to make > > > it sparkle again.  The rubber looks and feels good, one of the seals > > > needs replacing for sure.  Going to replace them all anyway.
> > >  Does the $45 rebuild kit come with all the rubber I need?  What > > > else?  Pictures will be up soon.
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