my 1971 Honda AZ600 Coupe jumped time, i pulled the
valve cover and the cam had rotated about 1/8th of a
full forward turn off time, i dont think it was enough
to bend any valves but not sure. I set it back to
correct initial timing, and put it all back together,
but it still wont start, i think i need to reset the
ignition timing now but dont know how- could someone
please email me some step by step directions on
this... or any other things i should check. Thanks
So Much,
Dave Williams, 18, Gig Harbor, WA.
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
jumped time on my az600
Re: jumped time on my az600
Dave:
I had the same thing happen to my '72 N600 earlier
this summer. Miles Chappel was kind enough to send me
the following tips regarding how to avoid jumped
timing:
"You can jump timing just by shutting off the car. A
special technique will eliminate bending of the valves
when you restart. Or it is more of a way to keep time
from jumping. The carb solenoid is supposed to prevent
run on, but it's worthless when a cam chain is
stretched or hyd. tensioner fails.
If you didn't jump more than 3 teeth you are probably
ok. Reset the cam timing, rotate engine slowly
forward, never backwards as the tensioner is on
the back side, will jump time. Rotate engine several
times forward, if you hit a hard spot you bent the
valves, remove head and repair. Gap valves
to .004"-.005".
The technique: when turning the car off have it in
first gear, right foot on brake, let clutch out
slowly, when the R's drop from the clutch drag
turn key off. Secondly, when you park on a hill facing
up hill make sure car is either in nuetral or reverse.
If the brake slips or car rolls in a forward gear
timing will jump."
Miles later told me that I should rotate the crank in
a clockwise rotation while setting points or valve
clearance etc. This rotation is achieved by pulling
the wrench on the generator bolt end of the crank
toward you as you lean over the front bumper.
You can reset your timing by aligning the timing marks
on your crankshaft pulley with the "F" marking. (the
markings on my sedan are on the generator housing).
Next set up a trouble light between ground and the hot
side of your points. Turn the ignition key to
"accesory". Next, loosen the vaccum advance modual
and adjust it so the trouble light just goes out.
Your timing should be properly adjusted.
I hope this helps.
Joel
--- Williams Dave wrote:
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
I had the same thing happen to my '72 N600 earlier
this summer. Miles Chappel was kind enough to send me
the following tips regarding how to avoid jumped
timing:
"You can jump timing just by shutting off the car. A
special technique will eliminate bending of the valves
when you restart. Or it is more of a way to keep time
from jumping. The carb solenoid is supposed to prevent
run on, but it's worthless when a cam chain is
stretched or hyd. tensioner fails.
If you didn't jump more than 3 teeth you are probably
ok. Reset the cam timing, rotate engine slowly
forward, never backwards as the tensioner is on
the back side, will jump time. Rotate engine several
times forward, if you hit a hard spot you bent the
valves, remove head and repair. Gap valves
to .004"-.005".
The technique: when turning the car off have it in
first gear, right foot on brake, let clutch out
slowly, when the R's drop from the clutch drag
turn key off. Secondly, when you park on a hill facing
up hill make sure car is either in nuetral or reverse.
If the brake slips or car rolls in a forward gear
timing will jump."
Miles later told me that I should rotate the crank in
a clockwise rotation while setting points or valve
clearance etc. This rotation is achieved by pulling
the wrench on the generator bolt end of the crank
toward you as you lean over the front bumper.
You can reset your timing by aligning the timing marks
on your crankshaft pulley with the "F" marking. (the
markings on my sedan are on the generator housing).
Next set up a trouble light between ground and the hot
side of your points. Turn the ignition key to
"accesory". Next, loosen the vaccum advance modual
and adjust it so the trouble light just goes out.
Your timing should be properly adjusted.
I hope this helps.
Joel
--- Williams Dave wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?> my 1971 Honda AZ600 Coupe jumped time, i pulled the
> valve cover and the cam had rotated about 1/8th of a
> full forward turn off time, i dont think it was
> enough
> to bend any valves but not sure. I set it back to
> correct initial timing, and put it all back
> together,
> but it still wont start, i think i need to reset the
> ignition timing now but dont know how- could someone
> please email me some step by step directions on
> this... or any other things i should check. Thanks
> So Much,
> Dave Williams, 18, Gig Harbor, WA.
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
-
dealadayray
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:08 am
Re: jumped time on my az600
Hi Dave, Joel and all the other Honda 600 Fans;
You must get serious about your engine and cam chain in particular.
Moving this or that one way or the other is just attaching faith healing to
your mechanical device. It's not organic and will not heal itself, neither
will letting out the clutch or parking one way or the other. The cam chain
needs to be changed out if it is stretched. How do you tell, if it is an
original Honda chain place your timing mark on "T" for top dead center and
while watching the cam through the Oil fill hole see how long it takes for
the cam to move while you move the timing mark from the T to the F mark on
the stator cover. I used to say if you reach the F your cam chain is
finished. This is true for most cases, however if the cam teeth are warn or
the tensioner is failing or has failed, or if the engine has not been
started for over a week (long enough for the oil in the tensioner to run
out) this may give you a false reading on your chain. Either way, your
chain is stretched and needs to be changed. This occurs roughly between 40K
and 60K on the chain. Some after market chains may replace very well but
the rule of thumb changes.
Be aware of the play between the rotation of the crank shaft and the
Cam they should move immediately and together. Allowing your rockers to be
set at 4 or 5 thousands is also a move in the wrong direction. If you look
at the rocker to cam surface a bad rocker is identified by the flat area in
the middle of the riding surface of the rocker arm. Increasing the distance
between the rocker and the cam will only cause more flat area on the rocker
producing an audible clicking in the engine. If your rockers are getting
flat, replace them with new ones. Another way is to have them Hard Chromed
and ground to factory specs. The next is to have the cam reground, grind
the rocker and place 15 thousands or more lash caps on your valve stems.
All are tried and true repairs and work.
Allow me just a few more words, please.
This is a 30+ year old car, and many of the replacement parts are
also 30+ years old. Simple ways to keep your Honda 600 alive and well are
to keep it clean, the whole car, but especially the engine and engine
compartment. If you have a leak, find out where it is coming from, the fan
will blow oil everywhere. Just tightening a bolt will normally strip
threads and never stop the leak. Using a torque wrench on all bolts is a
must when working on an aluminum engine. If I had to count all the damaged
threads I have had to repair because of some one bearing down on a bolt or
nut thinking it will hold and then leaving it in, the batteries in my
calculator would go out before I was finished. Or when the part is removed
where the leak is only to find parts of the previous gasket is still there
and the new gasket can't make a seal.
I could go on for quite a while on ways to keep your Honda 600
moving down the road, but the basics are the same and never change. As for
Torque, on a 6mm bolt it's torqued correctly at 90 inch pounds for aluminum
threads and 120 inch pounds for steel threads. Use red lock tight and
torque to spec, clean and rule all surfaces before applying the gasket and
you should have a well sealed engine.
Bill Colford.
You must get serious about your engine and cam chain in particular.
Moving this or that one way or the other is just attaching faith healing to
your mechanical device. It's not organic and will not heal itself, neither
will letting out the clutch or parking one way or the other. The cam chain
needs to be changed out if it is stretched. How do you tell, if it is an
original Honda chain place your timing mark on "T" for top dead center and
while watching the cam through the Oil fill hole see how long it takes for
the cam to move while you move the timing mark from the T to the F mark on
the stator cover. I used to say if you reach the F your cam chain is
finished. This is true for most cases, however if the cam teeth are warn or
the tensioner is failing or has failed, or if the engine has not been
started for over a week (long enough for the oil in the tensioner to run
out) this may give you a false reading on your chain. Either way, your
chain is stretched and needs to be changed. This occurs roughly between 40K
and 60K on the chain. Some after market chains may replace very well but
the rule of thumb changes.
Be aware of the play between the rotation of the crank shaft and the
Cam they should move immediately and together. Allowing your rockers to be
set at 4 or 5 thousands is also a move in the wrong direction. If you look
at the rocker to cam surface a bad rocker is identified by the flat area in
the middle of the riding surface of the rocker arm. Increasing the distance
between the rocker and the cam will only cause more flat area on the rocker
producing an audible clicking in the engine. If your rockers are getting
flat, replace them with new ones. Another way is to have them Hard Chromed
and ground to factory specs. The next is to have the cam reground, grind
the rocker and place 15 thousands or more lash caps on your valve stems.
All are tried and true repairs and work.
Allow me just a few more words, please.
This is a 30+ year old car, and many of the replacement parts are
also 30+ years old. Simple ways to keep your Honda 600 alive and well are
to keep it clean, the whole car, but especially the engine and engine
compartment. If you have a leak, find out where it is coming from, the fan
will blow oil everywhere. Just tightening a bolt will normally strip
threads and never stop the leak. Using a torque wrench on all bolts is a
must when working on an aluminum engine. If I had to count all the damaged
threads I have had to repair because of some one bearing down on a bolt or
nut thinking it will hold and then leaving it in, the batteries in my
calculator would go out before I was finished. Or when the part is removed
where the leak is only to find parts of the previous gasket is still there
and the new gasket can't make a seal.
I could go on for quite a while on ways to keep your Honda 600
moving down the road, but the basics are the same and never change. As for
Torque, on a 6mm bolt it's torqued correctly at 90 inch pounds for aluminum
threads and 120 inch pounds for steel threads. Use red lock tight and
torque to spec, clean and rule all surfaces before applying the gasket and
you should have a well sealed engine.
Bill Colford.