Re: Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to fuel injection?

Matt Timion · Post by **Matt Timion** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:41 pm

Most of us want to restore these cars, yet at the same time we want to make them better. I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm beginning to think it's possible to convert one of these engines to run on fuel injection, which might add more power as well as better fuel economy. My thinking is that we can do this using the EFI system from the 88-91 Civic DX/LX cars. It's a Dual Point Fuel Injection System, but in reality it just uses one injector. It has been described as a "glorified carb" on more than one occassion. The only problem I see with this is finding a way to not use the sensors that come with this system. It comes with water temp sensors, air intake temperature sensors, and of course the number of wires specifically for the distributor that will not be used at all. In the end it might be more of a headache than it's really worth, but I do think it would be a cool conversion. Any thoughts?

infinkc · Post by **infinkc** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:32 am

i was going to covert one of my 600's to fuel injection, using a "mega
squirt" really inexpesive and great unit to use, and fairly easy to
tune. My friend has one on his Turbo BMW tii, also with the optional
distrubutor-less option that you can add. I believe that the land
speed record 600 is running fuel injection also.
http://www.megasquirt.info/
-kris

Paul Orlandi · Post by **Paul Orlandi** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:07 am

A novel idea, but why reinvent the wheel? HD has a
fuel injected version of their engine; perhaps you
could start there. Also, I would imagine the Harley
"wannabes" either come with or have injection as an
option. Seems to me it would be easier to start with a
system designed for 2 cyl. rather than 4.

--- Matt Timion wrote:

> Most of us want to restore these cars, yet at the
> same time we want to make them better. I've been
> thinking about this lately, and I'm beginning to
> think it's possible to convert one of these engines
> to run on fuel injection, which might add more power
> as well as better fuel economy.
>
> My thinking is that we can do this using the EFI
> system from the 88-91 Civic DX/LX cars. It's a Dual
> Point Fuel Injection System, but in reality it just
> uses one injector. It has been described as a
> "glorified carb" on more than one occassion.
>
> The only problem I see with this is finding a way to
> not use the sensors that come with this system. It
> comes with water temp sensors, air intake
> temperature sensors, and of course the number of
> wires specifically for the distributor that will not
> be used at all.
>
> In the end it might be more of a headache than it's
> really worth, but I do think it would be a cool
> conversion.
>
> Any thoughts?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Matt Timion · Post by **Matt Timion** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:11 am

You're absolutely right about the 2 cyl system. I've been reading about
Megasquirt today and it seems that that would be the perfect solution for
this type of setup. They even have a setup that offers ignition control, so
you can kiss those points and condenser good bye

I can probably use the spare throttle body I'll have on my 89 Civic once I
swap engines next month. This really would be a cool setup.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Orlandi"
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to
fuel injection?

>A novel idea, but why reinvent the wheel? HD has a
> fuel injected version of their engine; perhaps you
> could start there. Also, I would imagine the Harley
> "wannabes" either come with or have injection as an
> option. Seems to me it would be easier to start with a
> system designed for 2 cyl. rather than 4.

Paul Orlandi · Post by **Paul Orlandi** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:15 am

Do you have a link to "Megasquirt"? The carb on my 80
Toyota Motorhome needs replacing and this might prove
to be interesting.

Thanx,

paul

--- Matt Timion wrote:

> You're absolutely right about the 2 cyl system.
> I've been reading about
> Megasquirt today and it seems that that would be the
> perfect solution for
> this type of setup. They even have a setup that
> offers ignition control, so
> you can kiss those points and condenser good bye
>
> I can probably use the spare throttle body I'll have
> on my 89 Civic once I
> swap engines next month. This really would be a
> cool setup.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Orlandi"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of
> converting a 600 to
> fuel injection?
>
>
> >A novel idea, but why reinvent the wheel? HD has a
> > fuel injected version of their engine; perhaps you
> > could start there. Also, I would imagine the
> Harley
> > "wannabes" either come with or have injection as
> an
> > option. Seems to me it would be easier to start
> with a
> > system designed for 2 cyl. rather than 4.
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Matt Timion · Post by **Matt Timion** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:20 am

http://www.megasquirt.info/

Megasquirt is just a EFI control module (ECU, ECM, etc. etc.) I havn't read
enough to determine if you can use factor sensors or not, but I'm guessing
you can.

It has a bunch of different EFI setups available, and you can set it up to
base the fuel mixture on any number of factors/sensors. For our cars I
still contend that using the throttle body from a 88-91 Honda DPFI system
would be best, as well as the TPS sensor and MAP sensors. You could use a
heated oxygen sensor as well.

Good luck!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Orlandi"
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to
fuel injection?

> Do you have a link to "Megasquirt"? The carb on my 80
> Toyota Motorhome needs replacing and this might prove
> to be interesting.
>
> Thanx,
>
> paul

Greg Sikes · Post by **Greg Sikes** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:33 am

What about a factory setup off a '75-'79 VW Beetle. Kind of a primitive system, but made for an air cooled engine, fairly simple and parts readily available. They have a head temp sensor, intake air temp sensor, and all injectors are fired everytime the points fire. I would think that a couple of the injectors could be replaced with resistors, and insert the the two remaining injectors into a fabbed manifold. The system used no oxygen sensor. I guess an EFI off of a '68-74 VW Type III, could be used, they were more complicated, but only fired two injectors at a time. Greg

Matt Timion wrote:

http://www.megasquirt.info/

Megasquirt is just a EFI control module (ECU, ECM, etc. etc.) I havn't read
enough to determine if you can use factor sensors or not, but I'm guessing
you can.

It has a bunch of different EFI setups available, and you can set it up to
base the fuel mixture on any number of factors/sensors. For our cars I
still contend that using the throttle body from a 88-91 Honda DPFI system
would be best, as well as the TPS sensor and MAP sensors. You could use a
heated oxygen sensor as well.

Good luck!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Orlandi"
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to
fuel injection?

> Do you have a link to "Megasquirt"? The carb on my 80
> Toyota Motorhome needs replacing and this might prove
> to be interesting.
>
> Thanx,
>
> paul

Bill Colford · Post by **Bill Colford** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:33 pm

Paul,
Don't forget that Honda 600's fire both cylinders at the same time, but let
me know how it goes. Where are you going to place the injectors?

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Orlandi
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:16 PM
To: 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to
fuel injection?

Do you have a link to "Megasquirt"? The carb on my 80
Toyota Motorhome needs replacing and this might prove
to be interesting.

Thanx,

paul

--- Matt Timion wrote:

> You're absolutely right about the 2 cyl system.
> I've been reading about
> Megasquirt today and it seems that that would be the
> perfect solution for
> this type of setup. They even have a setup that
> offers ignition control, so
> you can kiss those points and condenser good bye
>
> I can probably use the spare throttle body I'll have
> on my 89 Civic once I
> swap engines next month. This really would be a
> cool setup.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Orlandi"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of
> converting a 600 to
> fuel injection?
>
>
> >A novel idea, but why reinvent the wheel? HD has a
> > fuel injected version of their engine; perhaps you
> > could start there. Also, I would imagine the
> Harley
> > "wannabes" either come with or have injection as
> an
> > option. Seems to me it would be easier to start
> with a
> > system designed for 2 cyl. rather than 4.
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

Matt Timion · Post by **Matt Timion** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:03 pm

For this type of setup we would be besting using a single injector system,
or at least a throttle body designed for this type of application. As I've
mentioned before, the 88-91 Civics (DX, LX, and STD models) used dual point
fuel injection. DOn't let the name deceive you, it only used one injector
unless under very heavy load. The injector was actually attached to the
throttle body, so it's an "all-in-one" system. As I also mentioned, it's
essentially a glorified carb. Simply replacing the carb with this system
would be perfect. The next step would be to drill a hole in the exhaust
manifold and weld a bolt to the hole so that an oxygen sensor can be
securely screwed into the manifold. An air temp sensor can be used to
distinguish between open and closed loop, and a heat activated cooling fan
can also be used. Using MegaSquirt would also be wonderful as it can
control the coil, but on further thought I'd probably rather leave that to
the points/condenser just to ensure the timing is correct.

Overall, I think it would be a very worthy conversion, and one that can
breath new life into these engines and cars. It would help modernize them a
bit, would reduce emissions, and would also most likely improve fuel economy
(which is my personal favorite).

I'm sure I'll tackle this one sometime later this year, perhaps next winter
when my n600 is resting for the season.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Colford"
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to
fuel injection?

> Paul,
> Don't forget that Honda 600's fire both cylinders at the same time, but
> let
> me know how it goes. Where are you going to place the injectors?
>
> Bill
>

Miles Chappell · Post by **Miles Chappell** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:23 pm

Here in California Honda 600's are exempt from a smog inspection.
Now due to the age of the car but also in the past because the car
was under 50 CID. Installing a turbo or a supercharger would be
easier than fuel injection and I have seen both done on Honda 600's.

Other states have inspections that all cars have to pass before the
registration can be renewed, therefore the car could be converted
back to stock before the inspection. A stock Honda 600 runs just
fine, has sufficient power and due to collector status these days,
adding fuel injection may be of little benefit.

You might have better reception in my other group, Mod Micros, where
mods are prefered and you might find someone who has already done
it. I'm not beating down your ideas, but someone is always trying to
install bigger better engines, better brakes, better suspension etc
into a car that was not made to do anything more than be a Honda 600.

Miles

--- In 2cylinderhondas@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Timion"
wrote:

>
>
> For this type of setup we would be besting using a single injector

system,

> or at least a throttle body designed for this type of

application. As I've

> mentioned before, the 88-91 Civics (DX, LX, and STD models) used

dual point

> fuel injection. DOn't let the name deceive you, it only used one

injector

> unless under very heavy load. The injector was actually attached

to the

> throttle body, so it's an "all-in-one" system. As I also

mentioned, it's

> essentially a glorified carb. Simply replacing the carb with this

system

> would be perfect. The next step would be to drill a hole in the

exhaust

> manifold and weld a bolt to the hole so that an oxygen sensor can

be

> securely screwed into the manifold. An air temp sensor can be

used to

> distinguish between open and closed loop, and a heat activated

cooling fan

> can also be used. Using MegaSquirt would also be wonderful as it

can

> control the coil, but on further thought I'd probably rather leave

that to

> the points/condenser just to ensure the timing is correct.
>
> Overall, I think it would be a very worthy conversion, and one

that can

> breath new life into these engines and cars. It would help

modernize them a

> bit, would reduce emissions, and would also most likely improve

fuel economy

> (which is my personal favorite).
>
> I'm sure I'll tackle this one sometime later this year, perhaps

next winter

> when my n600 is resting for the season.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Colford"
> To: ;

> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:38 PM
> Subject: RE: [2cylinderhondas] Has anyone thought of converting a

600 to

> fuel injection?
>
>
> > Paul,
> > Don't forget that Honda 600's fire both cylinders at the same

time, but

> > let
> > me know how it goes. Where are you going to place the injectors?
> >
> > Bill
> >
>

Honda600Forum.com

Re: Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to fuel injection?

Has anyone thought of converting a 600 to fuel injection?